If i can make i short Suggestion: Post this also at the Forum of SETI.USA. they still have a RAC of more than 3000 at Predictor.

I guess some would sign the Letter... i cannot sign as i haven't anything to do with Predictor, and i won't have in Future.

Well, the first step should be a signature of whole teams only, that made polls representing the opinion of their members.

I have to say, personally Predictor has done nothing to me, as I have no account there. But I've been following the boards, and for what it's worth, I think this is a great idea and a wonderful example of demanding accountability and "voting with your feet." I would think those affected by the issue - directly or indirectly - will in large part agree.

Absent any acceptable response and corrective actions taken by Predictor, the important part will of course be to go beyond mere suggestion and actually get as many teams as possible to detach altogether and hit the project where it hurts - right in the RAC. Producing a substantial drop in flops may be the only thing that gets the higher-ups at Predictor to take notice - and appropriate action.

Anyway, kudos for standing up to authority.

OK, I have to wonder and ask. When Paul Buck was banned off that project under the old establishment, where were you all screaming madly that he had to be returned and the admin fired? Where was the PB4L team? Where were the emails from all teams demanding that things changed and Paul was returned to ask his questions?

If some of you are wondering who Paul Buck was, ask your team members who were there before you, or visit the UBW. He set that up.

Since none of you shouted murder, fire, rape and all that when Paul was banned then why go to all the trouble to get teams to sign a petition now that just a couple more people got the same treatment?

The big difference is that Paul asked time and time again when project's application specific problems were solved with his one account, whereas the problem today is not with how the project solves problems with its application, but with its users who kept making accounts to demand the same thing over and over.

The original problem (Wate) was dealt with.
The rest is a witch hunt.

Good idea. We can add that one to the list of grievances. It just proves that DLB has a long history of anti-social behavior toward Predictor's contributors.

However, when PDB was banned I don't think his account was wiped out along with his credits. So - the current situation is much more extreme.

A group of concerned contributors asked for a known cheater to be removed. The project admin publicly blasted them for daring to ask him to actually DO anything. The contributors reacted in a not-unexpected manner whne told to mind their own business or go elsewhere.

Then the mass bannings, IP blockings, and credit removals all started.

DLB then decided it would be a good thing if he bribed some of the remaining users with BIG credit awards that they didn't earn to become his cheerleaders. (Very aptly demonstrated by the previous poster.)

Personally, I have now been IP banned and my account deleted for simply posting a link to this thread in the Predictor forums.

I guess if DLB can't stand a little criticism, he shouldn't be in his position. Oh wait - that's what this is all about! Getting him removed. Have at it, guys.

And you Ageless, where were you ?
Sit in the middle of things as usually ?

People blaming admins, because the one has power ? The one has power, and also responsibility. So how about you ? Are you really taking your responsibility ?
How you take your responsibility ?

Wanky, if you have any proper proof for Wate guilty, not Wate's acount's, show me. What is "known cheater" ? Who ? Show the proof. If you don't have solid proof, you should think what to write. This thing made dlb angry. You didn't have solid proof, and tried to blame dlb, because some other projects did response. Other projects' admins have their own responsibilities, and their responsibilities never do anything for dlb's. Dlb decided to wait official announcements, and what is problem with it ?

Just stop blaming, flaming. It never make good future.

The problem is not really what happened with Wate, this was just the beginning. If he would have said: "Please be paitient and let me check what's behind it" no one would have complained...

If I were people, I would write an e-mail letter to mention an abnormal behaviour of Wate's account, with available information to ask to investigate.
You should think what you asked at the early stage, on the message boards.
The problem is on the both sides. Dlb was wrong, and I accept. So you were wrong, and when you accept ?

You must be the last person in all of BOINCdom to think that Wate wasn't a cheater.

All dlb had to do was to reply calmly to the original forum post that he wasn't aware of the problem and would check with the other projects and David Anderson about the issue. He would have fairly instantly found out thet story, and could have responded with his planned actions to rectify the situation in a manner of hours.

Instead he flew off the handle, started berating the messangers and those supporting the message, and proceeded to throw his tantrum.

Nah, just the same place you were. Out of the way and not trying to cause extra trouble.

And that's the thing with the mishap this year. Lots of people thinking they can cause extra trouble and be in the way. And them being punished for it in return.

If a team is deleted you don't sign up for a renewed version of it. That's a sign for trouble. If you then eventually get fully banned (including credits) then don't blame it on the project or the project Admin. YOU joined the team that was deleted one to a couple of times by your own choice.

Do you really think other projects don't do the same?
Try setting up a Klu Klux Klan team.
Try Setting up a White Supremacists team
Try Nazi's live forever, heil der Furher

So um, I don't see the difference much.

Oh, and for the minusers, I want to reach at least -10 on this post, OK?

Oh my, Angus. isn't that something you did on a daily, then weekly basis on the various forums when the answers given to you were out of your comfort zone?

I know, it would make you a bad Project Admin.
Yet on the other hand, were you really in the team at any one point, were you really part of Predictor during the 'bad' times?

Or are you only here to tell Terve2 off because you think you can?

I didn't see any people causing "extra trouble". I see people who came to the support of a user who was being mistreated by an abusive project admin/forum moderator/whatever.

If my account or team is deleted with NO EXPLANATION, I can only assume that it was a mistake and re-register or re-create the team. Did anyone ever receive a moderation email from Predictor or an emailed or public explanation of why their accounts, credit or teams were deleted? I haven't heard of one...

And where was you, Gertrude? Brown-nosing as usual. Rushing to the scene of an uproar offering her moderator services to help inflict as much abuse and trouble on the rightfully upset users, showing dlb just how she handles the riff-raff on her other forums.

Errm, please tell me what kind of trouble a team could do to a project when each of its members was still not able to post at the forums?
And of course there was no explanation given why it was deleted the first time. Just the fact that there was a (new) team entered into the database cannot be that harmful.

And if the abuse heaped on the contributors wasn't bad enough, DLB showed his utter distain for the BOINC system by making a total mockery of the points system when he "gave" huge credit awards to his chosen few.

All those "testers" who received the unearned credit are no better than WATE, and should all have their accounts removed as well.

I can't agree to that, and that is why it is not in the letter. We have no possibility to prove that.

Have you any proper proof for "criminal hacking" for the members of the B4L-team? Have you any proper proof for breaking the rules of the forum on Predictor trough the members of the team? Have you any proper proof for breaking the rules trough some other people, they banned up to 2038.

If someone stealing the woman on the other side her bag, shall I see in another direction? He has deleted our accounts with credits.
If someone tell some people, they are the mob, they should go elsewhere (but it's a public room and they don't have done anything wrong), shall I go and forget it? He has called us "the mob" and told us, we have to go elsewhere.
If someone offend me, shall I go without any opposition? If someone say: Shut up your mouth, shall I do?

What type of human you are, ageless? We have to nip things in the bud.

Those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat it.

Waiting for Ageless' response.

There's no need to prove it. That's been done.

Ageless knows it. He posted about it on the Predictor forum and in this very thread. He is one of the recipients.

He can either acknowledge it or lie about it.

When one was asked to leave, or banned, or account(s) deleted, one should not make a new account. The one was asked, and not the account was asked. This is enough to be "malicious hacking". Once I have mentioned about it here.

Many servers have some way to enter, by changing current ID, by changing e-mail address, by changing ISPs... We can cheat so easily, and servers should have tools to protect from such way. Dlb decided to delete their accounts with credits. What's problem with it ? He is the admin. If you don't like it, you must leave straight. Because you stick around, Things overacting again and again.

Don't forget, at p@h servers, dlb is the admin. He decide what to do, how to do, what should have been done. If you don't like dlb, you no need to contact to p@h servers. It should be easier for everyone than to block you to enter p@h servers.


I learned history, and in most cases, some people thought that were right and acted as so. When one were only single, one could not do any, but collecting people with similar thought, one could start acting. One would never seen when the other group start doing similar manner these others would have proper borderline of their actions. You acted too much beyond the borderline, and still thinking you are right. It's history of war. You are a German, you would know it. As a Japanese who started WWII with you, I would not take same road.

#Actually WWII could be prevented, if USA didn't desire to do...

So you are saying it is not alright to protest for my right to speak my mind about how a project is run?

Sorry to disappoint

The P@H project is based in California. In America you have a right to protest peacefully.

I, for one, will protest P@H until positive change comes about or I cannot protest anymore.

Oh about Borderlines, dlb crossed it way before this incident started......

Sorry, as you says: He is the admin, not god. The rules are for all. For the admin and for the users. Otherwise we have arbitrariness and dlb is a despot and not a admin.

If dlb can decide everything, what to do, can then a police man adjudge and enforce? If a admin a man above the rules? Can he change the rules everytime? If you supervise a public discussion room, can you anybody kick out when they don't break the rule.

If you insult me and accuse me wrongly in public, why should I go without contradiction?

They sow the wind and reap the whirlwind.

If you kick to many people in their as, then sometime something go's out of your control.

You are right. And this is what we want to do based on the letter. Inform people to decide if they want to join and compute for a project that has an admin behaving that way. And we want them to know that even before they have credits that could be deleted. It's just a prevention of trouble for the future. Preventing volunteers to fall in tha hands of the despot admin and preventing Predictor from getting volunteers that may think about freedom. So that Predictor gan cet people that only care about crunching without anything else - that seems to me what Predictor wants to have.

@Terve2: WHAT exactly is your interest in defending Predictor? I've been reading your posts for weeks now, and you seem to make the same case over and over, without offering any new, constructive arguments. On behalf of many readers of this thread, WE HAVE HEARD YOU. There is no need to keep making the same points again and again. We get it already. Your case is quite clear - it just happens that a large number of us happen to disagree with you completely. Saying it five more times won't change that. Personally I'd rather see some genuine action taken than have this thread carry on for six more months in an endless back-and-forth debate. I really think it would be much more constructive for those who were wronged to do something (which seems to be the current plan) rather than just talk about it. But the same goes for you - unless you have something fresh and insightful to say, please stop repeating yourself. Perhaps the rest of this thread should be dedicated to fruitful next steps and action - on both sides - rather than bickering. Maybe we need a code of conduct between admins and users. I really don't know what the solution is, although the idea of a protest is a good start.

My second question is, why do you even CARE so much about this? If you disagree with those who claimed they were wronged by P@H, then make your point and move on already! As a previous poster said, it's THEIR right to protest. Your vehement defense of Predictor makes me wonder if you're DLB in disguise or something. What's it to you if a group of BOINCers want to stage a protest to air their grievances? Why do you have such an interest in derailing this issue? Honestly, at this point your arguments are starting to sound trollish, impervious to logic, and questionable in their intent.

Also, I still don't think you understand that whether Wate is guilty or not is NOT the issue here! This real issue is the alleged chain of inappropriate events that followed, and whether authority was abused with the actions that were taken against those that dared to raise their voices. If you can't see that, then I believe your sympathies are sadly misplaced, and I'm afraid that what we have is a total disconnect. And unless you are in fact DLB, you are no more informed on this issue than anyone else, so not to be impolite, but please put up or shut up. If you have new arguments or evidence to present, then please step up to the mic and MAKE THEM. But rehashing your now VERY tired logic is a complete dead end.

And this is not to in any way restrict your freedom of expression. If you want to say the same thing 100 more times, have at it. You have the same rights as anyone else in this forum. But if you want to be taken seriously and add real value to the discussion, you may want to bring something new and insightful to the table.

Oh, and BTW, WHAT were you talking about when you said, "Actually WWII could be prevented, if USA didn't desire to do..."??? Are you actually saying the US should have stayed out of it and let Japan and Germany take over the rest of the world while we sat idly by? Are you really saying that just sitting there and taking it at the hands of the powers that be is a wise course of action? If so, then I can definitely see where your position on Predictor is coming from. Are you really that unwilling to confront an aggressor when you have been wronged? If that's the case, then good luck trying to sell that point of view. I think you're going to have a very hard time finding many who will buy into that kind of reasoning.

Picante, very well stated. we shall have to get a new tiltle for you as Diplomat.