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DoctorNow
 
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2007-06-26 17:39:58
last modified: 2007-06-26 17:42:52

He answered that it would not be capable to touch one user's account just because someone wrote something on the board.

If this would be so, Terve, then why he touched our accounts and deleted it without any proof for someone's guilt?
To do this he was capable...

I don't think his boss, Charles L. Brooks III, doesn't know about this situation...

IF he really don't know, he didn't noticed the thousands of E-Mails he surely got from several users (including me) about this whole situation.
Either he doesn't care about it at all or he has secured his email-address with a spam-folder every mail goes directly in it, which is surely the case for DLB himself
BOINC@Heidelberg & BOINC Confederation-member

My BOINCstats/[url=http://signature.statseb.fr/sig-335.png]My badges
Gopherboy76
 
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2007-06-26 18:03:33
last modified: 2007-06-26 18:20:36

My pc spazzed while trying to post so here's the short, to the point version...


Terve2
Some posters screemingly ordered to delete, banned, creating accounts again and again...and banned for life. You mean this kind thing was "in all politeness" ?


U said it yourself "Some posters..."
Yes, some may have been banned for going too far, that is not for me to decide and is not the issue.

The issue is the rest of the people who keep getting banned when simply asking about the situation and getting ignored when asking about other genuine problems.

BLD or any forum admin could have simply said "We'll check this out and decided what actions to take on that account!" then no-one would have ever started 'screaming' for action.

Predictor and DLB put the message across that all the honest people who "Earned" their credits will get punished because they couldn't be bothered to check if someone else may be cheating and claiming credits through fraud.

Innocent teams we're banned and credits removed because one member was banned (wether their banning had reason or not) Whole teams cannot suffer for one person and most teams connot tell members what to say in forums or they would be no better than DLB himself!

I have gone through alot of trouble and expense, put myself thru 6 yrs of college, 3 years of university and trained as a Studio Photographer. I consider myself to be a hard working, decent person yet I do take offense when someone labels me as part of a "mob" when they don't even know me!

That is the issues people have, no wars, no politics, no racism, not people who may have crossed the line - it's the innocent people & teams who are not happy with this treatment and want some sort of explanation.
Acmefrog
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2007-06-26 18:36:34

Yes I had sent Mr. Brooks an e-mail. But I never received a reply on that e-mail either.

Gopherboy76
 
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2007-06-26 19:01:44

Well... for those who may have missed it on the Predictor boards, I've just found...


quote from David Lee Braun
Predictor@Home
Manager of Computational Facilities
for Dr Charles L. Brooks, III
...
The bottom line is this. If you do not like P@H go somewhere else. Please. There are a large number of projects to choose from and if you look hard enough I'm sure that you will find one you like.


Not the politest way to express your feelings to kind and willing volunteers.

And in the following thread =Lupus= made a great point...

OK, problem "Wate" solved in the way that his account got zeroed and made unuseable server-side.

Next problem "censorship" not solved.

"The bottom line is this. If you do not like P@H go somewhere else. Please."

Good-Bye.

Maybe see you again after an official apology.
PovAddict
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2007-06-26 19:09:09

Dagorath, I'm sure that any spamming or DOS attack would simply confirm the Predictor administrators' negative and reactionary view of human nature in general and some of their (former) members in particular. This isn't a view any of us should encourage or provide a basis for.

You should read Dagorath's posts at LHC before trying to make any sense into him... I tell you, it won't work.
Haos
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2007-06-26 19:14:32

Aw cmon, racist??? I could say North Korea or China... maybe then, it would be more clear. Do you know who President Mugabe is? Someone much alike DBL.

Do you know what the President Mugabe reign looked like? If not, then stop posing to be a well educated person you try to impersonate, with all those almost smart references to II WW, if your only reaction to me, mentioning Zimbabwe as an example of distorted "democracy", is to yell "RACISM!".

Or you can stay in your small closed you closed yourself into, refusing to comment the 90% of my previous post. Why? Is it because you are unable to respond?

To others: i find accusations of racism not only unproved by any means, also highly offending.
Gopherboy76
 
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2007-06-26 19:47:39

If those comments are supposed to be in respect of my posting, I urge you to read it again.

That is the issues people have, no wars, no politics, no racism, not people who may have crossed the line - it's the innocent people & teams who are not happy with this treatment and want some sort of explanation.


I'm not implying any form of racism.

I agree with Haos with the comments being more a comparison for the situation. I didn't agree with Terve for trying to accuse of being racist remarks.

This is about the boinc community being unhappy with the running of an internet forum. I think it best to steer clear of such comparisons to keep this descussion civil.

And if the quote "stop posing to be a well educated person" was also aimed at myself, please refrain from such comments. I don't claim to know world politics, I wouldn't have a clue to who was president of what country and how they run it. I am here to discuss the unfair treatment of people at the predictor forums.

Other people can be offended too!
AndyK
 
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2007-06-26 23:53:34
last modified: 2007-06-26 23:55:38

Sorry, but can't hold on me anymore.

I think the main thing I was trying to put across was alot of issues seem to be ignored at Predictor, the Wate incident being a BIG issue which caused DLB to start behaving in a manor which most of the Boinc community found unacceptable as a forum admin.

As you told, somehow Predictor, Tanpaku and some other have poor response. So when you write something to Microsoft or Intel, AMD and so on, will you get proper reply soon after ? You would get automatic reply, but none the else. Then why on the Predictor only ? There are lots of projects where getting reply is rather rare case. Will you going to destroy all the projects admins ? Closing all the projects ? What are you really doing ? What is accurate meaning you are doing ? I thought it would destroy whole the BOINC society. Willy would not anymore make any mistake or Willy would be kicked out by somebody BECAUSE you could do so. Is that your hope ? So you want to have fun ?

Terve, what's your problem?
1st, you can't compare big companies with a dc-project. It's the same as comparing that project with a democratic country and his government.
2nd, (to accomplish your question) if I write to one of those companies (even in the forum!) I'll get an proper response at least within a week.
3rd, lot of boinc projects with rare responses? Please tell me some. The ones in which I participate are all very responsive.
4th, destroying administrators?? Closing projects?? What are you talking about???? Nobody wants to destroy dlb, or close the project. We want dlb to take notice that he was not acting the right way. As in this case there has been no response neither from dlb itself, nor from his superior we don't see any chance to call attention to our points, but to refuse to crunch work units for that project and to write that open letter. If the situation will be cleared many of the users will continue doing work for predictor. The project itself is worthy, but the way it is administered makes it non worthy for us.
5th

But there are other incidents (before and after Wate) where genuine, regular faults or user problems have occured and were reported in all politeness and correct manors on the forums which still have gone unanswered and simply seem to have been ignored.

He answered that it would not be capable to touch one user's account just because someone wrote something on the board. No solid proof, that what he wanted to say. Many posters eagered dlb to delete the account, he explained. Then what happened ? Some posters screemingly ordered to delete, banned, creating accounts again and again...and banned for life. You mean this kind thing was "in all politeness" ?

You always say he had no solid proof. Well, if he had looked closely into the mailing list as the other project administrators has done, he not only would have had strong evidence, but also had means to get the proof from other admins. And of course he could have looked, or has someone to look, into the questioned account and associated logfiles... BUT that's not the point! We don't want to discuss what he did or did not to the account of the user Wate. We want to get attention to dlb's behaviour of good people the project needs and demands. Sure there were few and far people between which did not act polite, already said in this thread by others. And as already said: They don't have to complain. But there were many others, which even didn't post a single word in the forum (concerning the Wate issue) and get banned, blocked and finally deleted. What about them? What about the users just asking for what is going on and getting banned and deleted?

Some posts suggesting their may be a problem with a link or server, etc. have also resulted in a forum ban? This is the stupidity I do not understand.

What way may easier for admin. They were his properties. You no need to understand. You paint walls in pink, and I will not understand. It's yours. I don't care.

Sorry don't get what you try to say here.

AndyK
Gopherboy76
 
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2007-06-27 00:38:29
last modified: 2007-06-27 00:40:37

Very well said, AndyK! I agree 100%

@Haos
And I apologise to Haos as I see his last post was not aimed towrds myself! I tried to delete the post but couldn't

Sorry for the misunderstanding
mo.v
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2007-06-27 01:48:00
last modified: 2007-06-27 01:51:35

PovAddict, thank you for the list of Dagorath's fascinating posts. A rare opportunity to expand my vocabulary and understanding of acronyms.

To some of the members still waiting for a response on Predictor, a friendly and informative post by Dagorath (or indeed anyone at all) might come as welcome relief from the silence.

Peter waiting for 10 months
http://predictor.scripps.edu/forum_thread.php?id=2408
Eric for 11
http://predictor.scripps.edu/forum_thread.php?id=2408
Biggles 13 months ago had some useful advice
http://predictor.scripps.edu/forum_thread.php?id=2364
Greven waiting 15 months
http://predictor.scripps.edu/forum_thread.php?id=2316
Shaktai said to Oren
Hi Oren,

First off, this is not an official answer but my personal speculation. Hopefully the project team can provide an officical answer soon.

That was 3 years ago.


Haos
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2007-06-27 03:22:00

Very well said, AndyK! I agree 100%

@Haos
And I apologise to Haos as I see his last post was not aimed towrds myself! I tried to delete the post but couldn't

Sorry for the misunderstanding


No problem. I rarely step into discussions like this, but terve`s attempts of defending Mr Braun really did put me off balance. Emotions, unfortunately, are rarely a good advisor, this is why my posts were bit too cryptic... at least half of shame on my side.

What angered me most, it was the multiple use of word "democratic" with conjunction to Mr Braun`s actions.
Thus i find, Terve2, you do not know the meaning of this word (as i summarized in my first post) or you defend Mr. Braun though you are fully aware that it is him who should take a full blame for this crisis.

I am unable to decide, which one of those choices is "better" for you.

Finally, you can hide between this "accusation", but my summary from the first post is still valid and unanswered. Currently i`m not sure either to call you fool, or a lier. Dont make me call you coward as well...
Terve2
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2007-06-27 11:20:12

you can hide between this "accusation", but my summary from the first post is still valid and unanswered.


I wrote unless you correct your mistake, it would no use to read whole sentences. If you cannot understand "the country name" = "its whole nation", I will not read further anymore.

I will not answer until yo correct your sentence.
Terve2
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2007-06-27 12:18:22


1st, you can't compare big companies with a dc-project. It's the same as comparing that project with a democratic country and his government.

Some of you compared dictators (mostly war crimes) and dlb. What's wrong with it ? At least dlb has his right to do. And it is not a crime. But you compared. You say you can do and I have no right to do. Why ? Because my ideology is far different from yours ?

2nd, (to accomplish your question) if I write to one of those companies (even in the forum!) I'll get an proper response at least within a week.

I recieved from MS, about Internet Mail and News in 1995, for the correction of hard-coded "8 bit" word. The answer was "it is the software specification". As you know E-mail has 7-bit encoding, and actually this software also use 7-bit, but on the header it writes as "8 bit", and kind servers convert to 7 bit (losing another 1 bit so unreadable anymore). Is this "proper response" for you?

3rd, lot of boinc projects with rare responses? Please tell me some. The ones in which I participate are all very responsive.

When you write some to admins, you will know it. And also you should know every boinc member will write "replyable question". Someone feels "their poor response".

4th, destroying administrators?? Closing projects?? What are you talking about???? Nobody wants to destroy dlb, or close the project. We want dlb to take notice that he was not acting the right way. As in this case there has been no response neither from dlb itself, nor from his superior we don't see any chance to call attention to our points, but to refuse to crunch work units for that project and to write that open letter. If the situation will be cleared many of the users will continue doing work for predictor. The project itself is worthy, but the way it is administered makes it non worthy for us.

Nobody ? Some already wrote about it, if you have read whole boards. I wonder exactly same way, what are you talking about ?

5th
You always say he had no solid proof. Well, if he had looked closely into the mailing list as the other project administrators has done

No one showed that mail yet. Most were personal mails. On the mailing list, dlb obtained the information and just after that he modified Wate's account.

We want to get attention to dlb's behaviour of good people the project needs and demands. Sure there were few and far people between which did not act polite, already said in this thread by others.

And you did not do anything against it.

But there were many others, which even didn't post a single word in the forum (concerning the Wate issue) and get banned, blocked and finally deleted. What about them? What about the users just asking for what is going on and getting banned and deleted?

I was on the fora, and not deleted. I don't know why some others got deleted, but I have also no proof that they really did not do any. There is lots of accounts on p@h (although active may fewer), and on some time "duplicationg accounts matter" possibly made such a side effect, I don't know. There is no way to specify for me, as I could not see whole posts.


Sorry don't get what you try to say here.

On another post somewhere (or I guess at p@h) it was mentioned that p@h was using boinc default (so to say initial) setting, and it made forum errors after deletion of the accounts.
Thomas_H
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2007-06-27 12:41:51



If you cannot understand "the country name" = "its whole nation", I will not read further anymore.



Terve, not even two weeks ago YOU tried to link picantecomputing to the US policy in Iraq. Now telling the name of a foreign country makes Haos a racist in your eyes. Please explain to me, why you are not a racist according to your definition, as I don't get the difference.
Terve2
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2007-06-27 14:13:16

US policy in Iraq

It's policy, not nation.
Thomas_H
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2007-06-27 14:32:55

US policy in Iraq

It's policy, not nation.


...and in Message 21689, Haos explained that he referred to President Mugabe's policy. So, still I don't see any difference.
Terve2
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2007-06-27 15:01:05
last modified: 2007-06-27 15:34:13

US policy in Iraq

It's policy, not nation.


...and in Message 21689, Haos explained that he referred to President Mugabe's policy. So, still I don't see any difference.


I said ”I will never talk with racistic ideology on the world wide web.”
We can edit own post easily, can't we ?
In Message 21644, Mo.v. also criticized not to over the borderline of "nations" and "politics". If you don't see, you no need to see it.

EDIT :
I think it would be far nice place if all posters check their posts each other so that no racistic, no obscencing, no insulting messages would be allowed on the boards. If this could work at p@h boards, this kind of results would not be arrived.
I just could not understand a person asking to join the petition without warning of misunderstandable posting. This kind of act would never help boinc, I think.
Thomas_H
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2007-06-27 15:36:31


I said ”I will never talk with racistic ideology on the world wide web.”
We can edit own post easily, can't we ?
In Message 21644, Mo.v. also criticized not to over the borderline of "nations" and "politics". If you don't see, you no need to see it.


You did not answer my question.
As you correctly pointed out, Mo.v (and others) told Haos that his comment was regarded offensive. This prompted Haos to further explain his statement, making clear that it was not his intention to discriminate anybody because of their race, nationality or descent.

On the other hand, you never gave any explanation or excuse for blaming picantecomputing or the people of the US (not = gouvernment!) for Iraq or for starting WW II. So, again, I ask you: Who is spreading racist ideology here???

Could you please clarify what you try to tell about editing posts: Do you want to edit your posts, do you want me to edit my posts or do you suggest that any post you refer to was edited? Also, I don't get what's it I don't need to see.
Terve2
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2007-06-27 15:41:49
last modified: 2007-06-27 15:44:44

This prompted Haos to further explain his statement, making clear that it was not his intention to discriminate anybody because of their race, nationality or descent.

Where he did ? He said about the president, and not much else.

EDIT :
Don't you have "Edit this post" link just left upside of the post message? Maybe only Firefox can display...
Saenger
 
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2007-06-27 15:49:58

You did not answer my question.

He never will, he's just a troll.
His only purpose is to clutter this thread with his meaningless dribble (and perhaps, but I don't really think so) deflect the attention from his master/alter ego dlb.
But I think he's doing just for himself, like most trolls.

If you don't feed him he will starve.

<°///////><
Haos
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2007-06-27 15:55:46

@Terve2
"Reductio ad absurdum" is never a valid argument. Yet, it is the only argument you`re offering here. Repeating, i could say Byelarus, North Korea and China. Also Nigeria and many african countries, when democracy is only a word, twisted and bend to their dictator`s needs. Most of the citizens in those countries i listed here, does not prostest against dictators in charge. Those few, who have courage, are persecuted, "banned" and "deleted". Some are told "to leave the country if they dont support their government".

Dont you find it strangely similar to Predictor and DLB situation? I do...

If you find me racistic, report it to the BoincSTAT board moderators. I doubt they`ll agree with you, as this whole "racism" accusation can exist only in your twisted mind.

Finally again, i find that stupidity is not limited by the colour of skin, religion, or place where you live. If this is racism - then hell yeah! I`m a racist!
Thomas_H
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2007-06-27 16:05:21

You did not answer my question.

He never will, he's just a troll.
His only purpose is to clutter this thread with his meaningless dribble (and perhaps, but I don't really think so) deflect the attention from his master/alter ego dlb.
But I think he's doing just for himself, like most trolls.

If you don't feed him he will starve.

<°///////><


I agree. After my questions were not answered 3 times in a row, I don't expect an answer anymore (should have known better).
It just made me angry that he accused someone else of making racist statements, just a few days after insulting a person because of his nationality.
Terve2
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2007-06-27 16:05:58

@Terve2
"Reductio ad absurdum" is never a valid argument. Yet, it is the only argument you`re offering here. Repeating, i could say Byelarus, North Korea and China. Also Nigeria and many african countries, when democracy is only a word, twisted and bend to their dictator`s needs. Most of the citizens in those countries i listed here, does not prostest against dictators in charge. Those few, who have courage, are persecuted, "banned" and "deleted". Some are told "to leave the country if they dont support their government".

Dont you find it strangely similar to Predictor and DLB situation? I do...

No, I don't. Dlb has the given right. And the right was given from whole W3C community. You are against W3C. If you don't like this policy, you have choice to leave W3C, and create good old BBS.

If you started this incident via e-mail (for making sure none of else involved afterward, just like insulting posts coming up), dlb would work on the case. But things went to other hands, insulting others, just like now on this board. None tried to stop these other hands.

Dlb is not a dictator, he used only his given right.

If you find me racistic, report it to the BoincSTAT board moderators. I doubt they`ll agree with you, as this whole "racism" accusation can exist only in your twisted mind.

I hope you will correct your post so that moderators would not need to do so.
Terve2
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2007-06-27 16:12:11
last modified: 2007-06-27 16:13:21

@Terve2
"Reductio ad absurdum" is never a valid argument. Yet, it is the only argument you`re offering here. Repeating, i could say Byelarus, North Korea and China. Also Nigeria and many african countries, when democracy is only a word, twisted and bend to their dictator`s needs. Most of the citizens in those countries i listed here, does not prostest against dictators in charge. Those few, who have courage, are persecuted, "banned" and "deleted". Some are told "to leave the country if they dont support their government".

Dont you find it strangely similar to Predictor and DLB situation? I do...

No, I don't. Dlb has the given right. And the right was given from whole W3C community. You are against W3C. If you don't like this policy, you have choice to leave W3C, and create good old BBS.

If you started this incident via e-mail (for making sure none of else involved afterward, just like insulting posts coming up), dlb would work on the case. But things went to other hands, insulting others, just like now on this board. None tried to stop these other hands.

Dlb is not a dictator, he used only his given right.

If you find me racistic, report it to the BoincSTAT board moderators. I doubt they`ll agree with you, as this whole "racism" accusation can exist only in your twisted mind.

I hope you will correct your post so that moderators would not need to do so.


EDIT :
I am not saying that he did completely right things, and I think he made overreactions against, against overreacted posters. (some of else deleted, I have no idea that the person was already involved at that time or not)

EDIT : Sorry I could not delete earlier post...
anders n
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2007-06-27 16:24:56

May i suggest that the debate about the mail to Predictor and it´s contents is
held in a new thread. This one is about something else now.
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