Pages: 1 ... 11 12 13 14 [15] 16 17
AndyK
 
BAM!ID: 20538
Joined: 2007-03-06
Posts: 21
Credits: 92,600
World-rank: 700,798

2007-06-27 16:26:17


1st, you can't compare big companies with a dc-project. It's the same as comparing that project with a democratic country and his government.

Some of you compared dictators (mostly war crimes) and dlb. What's wrong with it ? At least dlb has his right to do. And it is not a crime. But you compared. You say you can do and I have no right to do. Why ? Because my ideology is far different from yours ?

Yes, some of the users in this thread did compare. My statement was not mentioned only for you, but to them, too.
And another thing is: You prey to be always polite and correct, even if in your eyes someone is not. So please don't lower yourself to the same level.



2nd, (to accomplish your question) if I write to one of those companies (even in the forum!) I'll get an proper response at least within a week.

I recieved from MS, about Internet Mail and News in 1995, for the correction of hard-coded "8 bit" word. The answer was "it is the software specification". As you know E-mail has 7-bit encoding, and actually this software also use 7-bit, but on the header it writes as "8 bit", and kind servers convert to 7 bit (losing another 1 bit so unreadable anymore). Is this "proper response" for you?

ok, that's one issue 12 years ago. Did they change/extend their software specification or is this still a problem?
Have you tried to give them a 2nd chance? For example questioning sth. in the last month?


3rd, lot of boinc projects with rare responses? Please tell me some. The ones in which I participate are all very responsive.

When you write some to admins, you will know it. And also you should know every boinc member will write "replyable question". Someone feels "their poor response".

Soryy, but "some admins" and "Someone feels" is not for what I was asking for. Please name the projects.


4th, destroying administrators?? Closing projects?? What are you talking about???? Nobody wants to destroy dlb, or close the project. We want dlb to take notice that he was not acting the right way. As in this case there has been no response neither from dlb itself, nor from his superior we don't see any chance to call attention to our points, but to refuse to crunch work units for that project and to write that open letter. If the situation will be cleared many of the users will continue doing work for predictor. The project itself is worthy, but the way it is administered makes it non worthy for us.

Nobody ? Some already wrote about it, if you have read whole boards. I wonder exactly same way, what are you talking about ?

I have read at Predictor, BoincStats, BoincSynergy, Seti.Germany, Planet3DNow! some others and of course at Boinc@Heidelberg last one is in german language.
So you see I really have read a lot concerning this issue. And yes, some people in every board request to DDoS predictor, or the like. But they always have been reprehended from other users and of course everytime from mods/admins.
That's not the way this can be solved. We (I think I can speak for all of us supporting this open letter and peaceful resistance) don't want to harm the project. We don't want a war. We want a solution.


5th
You always say he had no solid proof. Well, if he had looked closely into the mailing list as the other project administrators has done

No one showed that mail yet. Most were personal mails. On the mailing list, dlb obtained the information and just after that he modified Wate's account.

mo.v talked about that and said there was a note on one of the mails on the mailing list. Not the only issue for that mail and not the headline, but it was in the mail.

We want to get attention to dlb's behaviour of good people the project needs and demands. Sure there were few and far people between which did not act polite, already said in this thread by others.

And you did not do anything against it.

Errr... yes...?
I not an admin of, or mod in, any project. Neither am I someone in the command structure of boinc. The same applies to BoincStats.
I am only a user, a cruncher who wants to raise his voice against censorship and admin arbitrariness happened and still happening at Predictor@home.
So what could I have done, other than to say "I'm not supporting criminal actions (DDoS attacs, spamming, etc.) and I don't see the good in that."?

But there were many others, which even didn't post a single word in the forum (concerning the Wate issue) and get banned, blocked and finally deleted. What about them? What about the users just asking for what is going on and getting banned and deleted?

I was on the fora, and not deleted. I don't know why some others got deleted, but I have also no proof that they really did not do any. There is lots of accounts on p@h (although active may fewer), and on some time "duplicationg accounts matter" possibly made such a side effect, I don't know. There is no way to specify for me, as I could not see whole posts.

You say you don't know why some others got deleted. They (the deleted ones, i refer to) do neither!
And that is exactly what's the point!

I know for sure of at least 4 alumni volunteers of predictor who wrote an email to dlb. They were asking why their accounts got deleted while they in person did not break forum or project rules.
The only answer dlb gave to some of them was: Some of the "Banned for life" team are malicous hackers.
The whole team with all members got deleted, because there was one (not "some" as he states) bad apple in the basket.
Others which did not join that particular team and only asked what's going on were given no answer to why their account got deleted.


Sorry don't get what you try to say here.

On another post somewhere (or I guess at p@h) it was mentioned that p@h was using boinc default (so to say initial) setting, and it made forum errors after deletion of the accounts.

hmmm... Well, I think this could be, because the boinc framework was not designed to actually delete someones account and dlb did this action directly to the database by issueing an self written sql statement...?
[BOINCstats] Willy
 
Forum moderator - Administrator - Developer - Tester - Translator
BAM!ID: 1
Joined: 2006-01-09
Posts: 9236
Credits: 349,822,518
World-rank: 3,518

2007-06-27 16:46:12


Sorry don't get what you try to say here.

On another post somewhere (or I guess at p@h) it was mentioned that p@h was using boinc default (so to say initial) setting, and it made forum errors after deletion of the accounts.

hmmm... Well, I think this could be, because the boinc framework was not designed to actually delete someones account and dlb did this action directly to the database by issueing an self written sql statement...?


BAM! does allow a user to delete his account (why one would want to, I don't know, but someone requested it ). BAM! then tries to set all the post by this user to user id 0 (which is Guest in the userlist and has no rights). When the delete script misses a thread or post an error is shown on the webpage: "User with id xxxxx created but nothing returned from DB layer". Nothing gets broken, the forum still works.

I post this as a fact, not as an opinion! I'd really like to stay out of the whole discussion about Predictor and remain Swiss.... Ehr, I mean neutral
Please do not PM, IM or email me for support (they will go unread/ignored). Use the forum for support.
AndyK
 
BAM!ID: 20538
Joined: 2007-03-06
Posts: 21
Credits: 92,600
World-rank: 700,798

2007-06-27 16:54:35

@Terve2
"Reductio ad absurdum" is never a valid argument. Yet, it is the only argument you`re offering here. Repeating, i could say Byelarus, North Korea and China. Also Nigeria and many african countries, when democracy is only a word, twisted and bend to their dictator`s needs. Most of the citizens in those countries i listed here, does not prostest against dictators in charge. Those few, who have courage, are persecuted, "banned" and "deleted". Some are told "to leave the country if they dont support their government".

Dont you find it strangely similar to Predictor and DLB situation? I do...

No, I don't. Dlb has the given right. And the right was given from whole W3C community. You are against W3C. If you don't like this policy, you have choice to leave W3C, and create good old BBS.

You are talking about givin right... you are missing the point again.
dlb has been given the power, not the right.
The W3C don't give rights nor the power. The W3C "is an international consortium where Member organizations, a full-time staff, and the public work together to develop Web standards. W3C's mission is: To lead the World Wide Web to its full potential by developing protocols and guidelines that ensure long-term growth for the Web.
Did you ever read the page http://www.w3.org/Consortium/ ?
Please don't say something for the record as a fact you don't have a proof of and in this case is totally wrong.


If you started this incident via e-mail (for making sure none of else involved afterward, just like insulting posts coming up), dlb would work on the case. But things went to other hands, insulting others, just like now on this board. None tried to stop these other hands.

Do you know why communities have message boards and why a message board is called forum? Do you know the meaning of forum?
Do you think dlb were pleased to get dozend of emails concerning the same issue, each mail requesting an individual answer?
That's why the forum is the proper place. Many users can post in the same thread collecting the whole issue to one place. So dlb could have communicate to all of them in just one spot. Maybe he isn't aware of that possibility as you are?

Dlb is not a dictator, he used only his given right.

As I stated above: He has no given right. Admins have to obey their own (or project) rules, not only the users.
Not for nothing the boinc framework asks for a explanation to give, when banning users out of the froum.
This form field should be made mandatory with at least 20 words to fill in.

AndyK
Maion
 
BAM!ID: 20380
Joined: 2007-03-02
Posts: 1
Credits: 36,805
World-rank: 1,027,358

2007-06-27 17:36:08

Gopherboy76
 
BAM!ID: 27158
Joined: 2007-05-22
Posts: 50
Credits: 3,188,458
World-rank: 101,089

2007-06-27 19:42:52

Agreed, Don’t feed the troll!!!

But just thought to get back on track with things...
So far we have only 17 signatures on the online petition – any chance people can spread the world through other forums and teams.

@ThEfT – Have you had any feedback regarding sending out the open letter to other teams and forums?

Also has anyone received ANY information from Predictor regarding this whole matter? (Yes, I know it’s doubtful – but best see where we stand at the moment)

Have there been any more bans, deletions, etc. over at Predictor to add to the list?

Basically, I’m just wondering where we stand at the moment, ball-park figures of users banned, users who left and how much support we’re getting behind contacting Scripps?
ThEfT
 
BAM!ID: 355
Joined: 2006-05-14
Posts: 124
Credits: 3,050,080
World-rank: 103,955

2007-06-27 20:04:12

@ThEfT – Have you had any feedback regarding sending out the open letter to other teams and forums?

We also have BOINC-Synergy on the letter. The letter is not sent out yet. I need the help of all of you to spread the information around as much teams as possible.
And I feel like the petition does not have many signatures yet.
Lot's of people already got tired of Predictor.

And btw. I already gave up to discuss with vassals of dlb
Gopherboy76
 
BAM!ID: 27158
Joined: 2007-05-22
Posts: 50
Credits: 3,188,458
World-rank: 101,089

2007-06-27 21:27:01

Actually, I would actually like to ask Terve2 just one question?

@Terve2 - It is clear to me that you have a different opinion about what has happened at Predictor. I respect that and I am not going to ask you to change your mind.

But I would like to ask, how would you feel and what would you do if you found that you had been banned from this forum because you do have a different opinion?
Terve2
BAM!ID: 7439
Joined: 2006-10-01
Posts: 42
Credits: 174,239
World-rank: 516,145

2007-06-27 21:53:57

Actually, I would actually like to ask Terve2 just one question?

@Terve2 - It is clear to me that you have a different opinion about what has happened at Predictor. I respect that and I am not going to ask you to change your mind.

But I would like to ask, how would you feel and what would you do if you found that you had been banned from this forum because you do have a different opinion?


I will go and play with other ground, like SecondLife.
Terve2
BAM!ID: 7439
Joined: 2006-10-01
Posts: 42
Credits: 174,239
World-rank: 516,145

2007-06-27 22:04:00


The W3C don't give rights nor the power. The W3C "is an international consortium where Member organizations, a full-time staff, and the public work together to develop Web standards. W3C's mission is: To lead the World Wide Web to its full potential by developing protocols and guidelines that ensure long-term growth for the Web.

They have published once the admins' right and rule to obey. If you try finding some netiquette issues you may find the document.


Do you know why communities have message boards and why a message board is called forum? Do you know the meaning of forum?

As I wrote in this fora, we should choose forums and e-mail properly. Why some of you acted extremely annoying ? Some of your comments would drive some others to do so, just for fun. I classify such posts as "insulting others". We have to avoid this bad spiral by choosing e-mail communication. That time, our tools were more or less e-mail.
Gopherboy76
 
BAM!ID: 27158
Joined: 2007-05-22
Posts: 50
Credits: 3,188,458
World-rank: 101,089

2007-06-27 22:14:32

Actually, I would actually like to ask Terve2 just one question?

@Terve2 - It is clear to me that you have a different opinion about what has happened at Predictor. I respect that and I am not going to ask you to change your mind.

But I would like to ask, how would you feel and what would you do if you found that you had been banned from this forum because you do have a different opinion?


I will go and play with other ground, like SecondLife.


So, if i understand, you would just leave and go play a game and not care about being banned?
If that is the case, why are you even complaining about people who do care about being banned?

Nothing more to say really!!!!
Nightbird
BAM!ID: 132
Joined: 2006-05-11
Posts: 85
Credits: 0
World-rank: 0

2007-06-27 22:20:01
last modified: 2007-06-27 22:26:33

@Terve2
Don't use "we". Speak for and only for yourself.
I don't think like you and never will do.
I don't act like you and never will do.
Me too, i classify such (your) posts as "insulting others".




mo.v
BAM!ID: 25128
Joined: 2007-05-01
Posts: 280
Credits: 0
World-rank: 0

2007-06-27 22:30:19

Mr Braun has made two posts on Predictor in the past week while a number of members, including myself, patiently await a response to their problems and queries. But Byngl receives an almost instantaneous response, within 22 minutes! Can anyone figure out why?

http://predictor.scripps.edu/forum_thread.php?id=2620
Nightbird
BAM!ID: 132
Joined: 2006-05-11
Posts: 85
Credits: 0
World-rank: 0

2007-06-27 22:34:07

Mr Braun has made two posts on Predictor in the past week while a number of members, including myself, patiently await a response to their problems and queries. But Byngl receives an almost instantaneous response, within 22 minutes! Can anyone figure out why?

http://predictor.scripps.edu/forum_thread.php?id=2620

Why do you think that you will get an answer ?
mo.v
BAM!ID: 25128
Joined: 2007-05-01
Posts: 280
Credits: 0
World-rank: 0

2007-06-27 23:00:16

I'd be very surprised if I ever get an answer. But DLB's rapid response when he wants something is most interesting. It means that the unanswered posts are probably deliberately ignored. It also means that whether a poster receives a response or not depends almost entirely on what he/she is worth to Predictor.
picantecomputing
BAM!ID: 19319
Joined: 2007-02-14
Posts: 172
Credits: 2,486,623
World-rank: 118,454

2007-06-27 23:25:17

@Terve2
Don't use "we". Speak for and only for yourself.
I don't think like you and never will do.
I don't act like you and never will do.
Me too, i classify such (your) posts as "insulting others".

Folks, seriously, Terve is STILL trolling and we are STILL feeding him. Maybe he's trying to perfect his skills in being able to contradict any argument by any person at any time. I think we all know where we stand on the Predictor issue. From weeks of going back and forth with the troll, I can confidently say that you will NEVER change his mind and he will NEVER see your points. So my best advice, again, is to stop responding to him and just let him believe what he believes. The important thing is that the protest goes on, whether the troll likes it or not. I simply don't care what he thinks, and I truly believe you're only feeding his ego by instigating him to continue his ranting. Of course you're free to say whatever you want. But if what you're looking for is a constructive dialog, I assure you that Terve isn't.

Haos
BAM!ID: 29294
Joined: 2007-06-25
Posts: 5
Credits: 0
World-rank: 0

2007-06-28 00:05:01

I am also feeling insulted, not because of being called a racist, but for contradicting the very nature of democracy. If someone is calling black - white and white - black (explanation for Terve2 - those are not the colors of skin), then any discussion with such person is pointless.

W3C is a standarization bureau, has nothing to do in Predictor affair. It is only between the slandered/libeled/banned former Predictor users and DLB.

I second with motion to ignore any future Terve2 posts, as he is clearly trolling here for behalf of DLB. I have nothing against discussion with opposing parties, but playing a Dumb Joe with them is just something compeletely different.

Terve2 should be gratefull not to get his BoincSTATS account deleted, forum access blocked and ip range banned. Why not? For him and Predictor, this is an accepted methode of dealing with opposition...
mo.v
BAM!ID: 25128
Joined: 2007-05-01
Posts: 280
Credits: 0
World-rank: 0

2007-06-28 00:35:04

Haos, I certainly accept your explanation that you were referring to Mugabe's regime. The contents of that post of yours have been dealt with and I see no need for anyone to refer to it again.

My second-but-last post was an attempt to look at why Predictor in general and DLB in particular behave in this way. I know that we probably all have a streak of selfishness, but to see it so blatantly revealed is quite rare.
picantecomputing
BAM!ID: 19319
Joined: 2007-02-14
Posts: 172
Credits: 2,486,623
World-rank: 118,454

2007-06-28 01:43:11

Terve2 should be gratefull not to get his BoincSTATS account deleted, forum access blocked and ip range banned. Why not? For him and Predictor, this is an accepted methode of dealing with opposition...

I realize you were probably kidding and being ironic when you said that, but let's not sink to Predictor's level by suggesting that we should mimic its actions by deleting accounts and suppressing opinions. The troll can say whatever he wants and of course has the right to - I'm only suggesting that we stop taking his bait, thereby prolonging his litany of flimsy arguments and dubious logic. Let him say whatever he wants - but the only way he's going to go away is if we starve him of the attention he's so desperate for.

I do think it would be interesting though to know how he would feel if his BS account WERE deleted. Not that I want to hear it from him. Or anything else for that matter.
Gopherboy76
 
BAM!ID: 27158
Joined: 2007-05-22
Posts: 50
Credits: 3,188,458
World-rank: 101,089

2007-06-28 02:03:16
last modified: 2007-06-28 02:05:31

Well, I'm guilty of a little bit of spamming.

I've been to all the forums of the projects I'm currently crunching for and posted a little message and link for the petition. (Only in threads which are discussing Predictor - two projects didn't have such threads so I left them out). Reading through such threads also shows there's alot of other boinc users who don't post here on BOINCstats think Predictors actions should be questioned.

So hopefully we may have a little better response.
Acmefrog
BAM!ID: 28954
Joined: 2007-06-19
Posts: 5
Credits: 0
World-rank: 0

2007-06-28 02:06:26

@ThEfT – Have you had any feedback regarding sending out the open letter to other teams and forums?

We also have BOINC-Synergy on the letter. The letter is not sent out yet. I need the help of all of you to spread the information around as much teams as possible.
And I feel like the petition does not have many signatures yet.
Lot's of people already got tired of Predictor.

And btw. I already gave up to discuss with vassals of dlb


Did you want individual members of teams that have signed on to also sign the petition? There may be some confusion on that. If you also wanted individual members to sign you might have to say that (If you did I missed it). I voted for the letter at Synergy. I also signed the petition in addition to make sure my name was clear. (If you can make my signature a size 50 font on the petition, it would be appreciated. )
AndyK
 
BAM!ID: 20538
Joined: 2007-03-06
Posts: 21
Credits: 92,600
World-rank: 700,798

2007-06-28 04:04:12

...
Did you want individual members of teams that have signed on to also sign the petition? There may be some confusion on that. ...


You may want to take a look at this post from ThEfT: 21452

AndyK
AndyK
 
BAM!ID: 20538
Joined: 2007-03-06
Posts: 21
Credits: 92,600
World-rank: 700,798

2007-06-28 04:51:06
last modified: 2007-06-28 04:55:10

You know the proverb: Chi tace acconsente?


The W3C don't give rights nor the power.
...[/b]

They have published once the admins' right and rule to obey. If you try finding some netiquette issues you may find the document.

If they have published, please give me the link to it. Because if someone just write something on the board is no proof.


Do you know why communities have message boards and why a message board is called forum? Do you know the meaning of forum?

As I wrote in this fora, we should choose forums and e-mail properly. Why some of you acted extremely annoying ? Some of your comments would drive some others to do so, just for fun. I classify such posts as "insulting others". We have to avoid this bad spiral by choosing e-mail communication. That time, our tools were more or less e-mail.

I agree, that some of the users here (I presume you meant them, not me literally?) have given some comments which are not for the good of it. Whereby 'it' stands for the peaceful resistance. If someone do criminal acts on behalf of this post, that person surely did not understand what we try to do and acts on his own behalf. Not because we invited him to do so. I'm very sorry for you, that you evidently don't understand that difference either.

I agree, that forum and mail should be used properly. By choosing email communication you don't have the chance to get them all in one spot as I marked out earlier. You would have an discussion by email for every single one in this issue! Just think about the time you would spent responding to every individual email.
To avoid that bad spiral is very easy: Just write your opinion and why you stay for it out in the forum. If you are going to ban someone, warn him and let him know why. Don't delete inappropriate posts, but edit them (an admin not only has the power and the right to do so, but also in special cases is forced to do so by the law) deleting the inappropriate passage and leaving an explanation why you edited.
If you do it in this manner no one would ever cry out something against the admin because the reason why is given.


Coming back to the first sentence in my post...
What about the other points of my post?
If you don't say anything, I can presume you are conform to my writing?

to 1st: You agree that you lowered yourself and made the same abusive steps and apology for writing so.

to 2nd: You did not give them a second chance in 12 years, but want us to give dlb the 100th chance? Is this the way you handle things.

to 3rd: As you can't name the projects, there are no and you apology for beeing wrong.

to 4th: You agree, that we are supporting a peaceful resistance and are right to do so.

to 5th: You remember that Mo.v wrote it and apology forgetting it.

to "doing nothing against it": You agree that I was and am not in the position.

to "getting deleted by no cause": You don't know why they got deleted and apology for not reading properly and in consequence missing the point.

to "forum goeas wired after deleting users": Willy has cleared out that it is not the fault of the boinc framework. So dlb was not using the proper methods. Saying sorry for beleaving in dlb and not in the opensource developers.


AndyK
ThEfT
 
BAM!ID: 355
Joined: 2006-05-14
Posts: 124
Credits: 3,050,080
World-rank: 103,955

2007-06-29 19:06:43

Did you want individual members of teams that have signed on to also sign the petition? There may be some confusion on that. If you also wanted individual members to sign you might have to say that (If you did I missed it). I voted for the letter at Synergy. I also signed the petition in addition to make sure my name was clear. (If you can make my signature a size 50 font on the petition, it would be appreciated. )

If your team does not decide to sign and/or if you are in no team, you should sign the petition. But even if your team decides to join, you can sign the petition, too. I leave it on Predictor to figure out how many signers are in the named teams
Gopherboy76
 
BAM!ID: 27158
Joined: 2007-05-22
Posts: 50
Credits: 3,188,458
World-rank: 101,089

2007-06-29 19:37:37

I leave it on Predictor to figure out how many signers are in the named teams


Definately! As if they are gonna check, that would probably be too much hard work!!!
Fritzr
 
BAM!ID: 16005
Joined: 2006-12-31
Posts: 18
Credits: 643,308,057
World-rank: 2,242

2007-07-05 09:03:25

Have any of the B4L team ever even remotely attempted to see the repeat bannings from DLB's point of view? DLB tells users to go away, they don't, then he had to use force. And there is no freedom to assemble peacefully on someones PRIVATE property (the forums) if the owner asks them to leave. They are private property for public use. I don't like Wal-Mart's treatment of their employees. Does this mean I can gather all my friends that agree with me and assemble in the parking lot, informing people as they walk by of my beliefs? If management tells me to leave and I don't, guess what will happen... the police will come. If I still won't leave and they have to drag me out kicking and screaming, that would make me an aggressor and I would loose any credibility to protest Wal-Mart's practices. At first glance, DLB's reactions were outrageous, but when you see what the crowd did in response, DLB's reactions are warranted. Any members lost any and all rights when they created a second account after being banned the first time, why can't people see that? And why can't the folks that were banned accept the fact that they were banned? What do you think "banned" means?


You've said very well what I've been thinking as I've read the threads relating to this "battle"

US has a democratic government. The rights citizens have in dealing with the government do not apply when not dealing with the government.

Harass people on a private forum after the Moderators have asked you to stop and you are not excersising your right to free speech, you are very likely violating the User Agreement you signed when you registered on the forum.

Someone mentioned the adage "Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it". Well seems that many of the loudest protesters have attempted to prove that saying is true. They are told they will be banned if they make certain types of posts ... they make the post and get banned ... then reregister and cannot understand why when they repeat the behavior that got their account canceled they get canceled again. You'd think most would make the connection between "post not allowed" and "account removed for violation" especially after the 7th or 8th repeat

The ones I most like are the ones who proudly state that they were banned multiple times for knowingly violating the rules. No misunderstanding, the intention was to see how many times they could get banned ... truly a failure to learn from history

For all BOINCERs who do not wish to support Predictor@Home while continuing to support BOINC in general that your current tactics do not attract new crunchers. In fact they are quite likely to believe what you say applies to BOINC in general. Of more concern for those supporting the persecution of an Admin who took action to control what the OWNERS of a forum saw as troublemakers posting on a moderated forum is that Admins of unrelated projects will be less likely to tolerate similar abuse on their forums.

Of course this wouldn't bother a prolific troll. After all the trolls count Forum bans as badges of honor ... it means they really upset the Moderators & other forum members

Interestingly enough given the text in many of these posts 2 rules in this forum are:
No messages intended to annoy or antagonize other people, or to hijack a thread.
No messages that are deliberately hostile or insulting.

I haven't finished reading the whole thread and already have seen both of these violated several times ... be very glad you have tolerant moderators/admin here
Pages: 1 ... 11 12 13 14 [15] 16 17

Index :: The Projects :: Predictor And censorship
Reason: