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Tuna Ertemalp
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2017-02-17 04:54:00
last modified: 2017-02-17 04:54:27

I didn't know which Forum section to post this under, so I am doing it here. Feel free to move it to a topic properly. I am just smelling some trouble brewing, so some thinking & communication might be needed. I am sure you all know most of this, but I am not sure if a detail is not getting ignored.

http://atlasathome.cern.ch/forum_thread.php?id=660#6057 is an example of all CERN projects consolidating under LHC@Home. In addition to ATLAS@Home, other projects are moving, too: vLHCathome and Beauty@LHC (the latter is probably already moved since the server has been down forever, and the LHCb app is already on LHC@Home). It seems LHChome-dev will stay where it is per https://lhcathomedev.cern.ch/lhcathome-dev/forum_thread.php?id=299#4161 ("P.S The dev project will stay around as it is." ).

(By the way, unrelated to this post: LHChome-dev is spelled as "vLHCathome-dev" here on BS, which probably should be fixed now)

The problem is, just like mentioned in the ATLAS thread I pointed to above, there are certain things promised to the crunchers:

"Credit will not be lost! We will move all the credit accumulated here to LHC@Home once all the remaining tasks are finished. To make this easier it would be very helpful if your email address you register with is the same on both projects, since this is the only way to match the accounts on each project."

and

"Badges will be moved too."

Isn't this going to wreak havoc with misc statistics sites (including BOINCstats, Free-DC, etc.) as well as the Signature for BOINC Users site? The usual "project is retired" activity will result in all those retired project credits count twice, once from the old projects in the Retired Projects category, and then from the new apps that will start their existence using those existing credits and inflate the credit for LHC@Home. And, the badges from those projects will all end up doubling.

Am I missing something here? Does this mean that retiring these projects should be done very carefully, first making sure that the credits have really been moved to the new subprojects by CERN devs, and then either delete them here (and at other stats sites) as if they never existed, or retire them but set their credit count to zero, or retire them with their credits intact to respect the history but add code to always skip them while creating future aggregate values (as relevant to the user/host/badges/whatever other context)?

Thanks
Tuna

[BOINCstats] Willy
 
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2017-02-17 08:15:15

If they indeed move the credit it would be counted twice. But I have a little switch at each project to prevent that. I just need to know which projects are affected.
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Tuna Ertemalp
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2017-02-17 08:33:50

Awesome. Once they do, which they say they'll do once everything works instead of by a time table, we'd hear about it.
Yavanius
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2017-02-18 22:21:05

It only affects people who haven't run the LHC projects, else it's a zero sum game for everybody else as rankings would be unchanged.

See what happens when you don't run a project?


IIRC, before they do the move they want to make sure everything is properly running on the main (aka classic) LHC site. They are/were doing some more new work testing on some of the sister project before the migration was completely finished and switching them off.


Incidentally, there's a nice summary of each of the projects at:

http://lhcathome.web.cern.ch/


It appears they still have to update links and the websites as some of them still take you to the stand-alone sites, but if you're just looking for an overview of each (sub)project, that'll do nicely.
Yavanius
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2017-02-18 22:23:26

I was just wondering out of curiousity, what site are linked when you have a primary site and then the BOINC site?

That asked, would it be better to link to the main site or the BOINC site??
Crystal Pellet
 
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2017-03-01 09:03:09

[BOINCstats Willy wrote:

If they indeed move the credit it would be counted twice. But I have a little switch at each project to prevent that. I just need to know which projects are affected.

Attn to Willy: The Credit Migration has started

[BOINCstats] Willy
 
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2017-03-01 09:29:18

I switched off vLHC for import to the combined stats. It should disappear after the next update.
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Tuna Ertemalp
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2017-03-03 02:08:44
last modified: 2017-03-03 02:24:09

Something is weird. Just looked at MyProjects. If I click for the stats on, say, Albert@Home, I see my stats for that project. But, if I click for the stats on vLHChome, I see a page for a "simone" (a6a163034179ea40049eff9667b04b91).

Also, if I go to MyDetailedStats, then Charts, and look at the last 24hrs, vLHCathome comes 2nd to Collatz at 24.7%, which has never been the case, ever. Also, impossible, since MyDetailedStats/ProjectList shows 0 credits for vLHCathome under the Today column.

Something weird seems to have happened once you flipped that switch...

Tuna

PS: And, vLHCathome probably should be retired since it is now redirecting to LHC@Home (https://lhcathome.cern.ch/lhcathome/forum_thread.php?id=4136#29007)

PSS: And the link given here earlier to the thread about the migration now includes some happy people and some unhappy ones, mostly related to having multiple copies of the project running on their machine as well as multiple credit listings in their stats, possibly from BS.
Tuna Ertemalp
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2017-03-03 05:39:22

Furthermore, MyDetailedStats/ProjectList shows this data for LHC@Home and vLHCathome:


LHC@Home 1,112,672.76 0.06 0 379,132 382,639 415,763 718 225 230 283 2 195
vLHCathome 1,112,672.76 0.06 0 1,112,673 1,112,673 1,112,673 718 0 0 0 2 195


Seems vLHCathome redirecting to LHC@Home is making BS pickup the same stats XMLs twice, attributing the new LHC@Home credit (which is the old LHC@Home credit plus the incoming old vLHCathome credit after their migration) also wholly to vLHCathome. I think. That probably inflates the total BOINC credits by that amount, right?

It basically looks like vLHCathome credits in BS should be set to zero and the project should be retired.

Did something like this ever happen before? A project moving into another, and instead of starting to collect new credits in the new address, it also brought its credits along, plus changed the address of the old location to point to the new location?

Seems to me that CERN folk should have talked to Account Manager admins like Willy & Bok.
[BOINCstats] Willy
 
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2017-03-03 12:48:35
last modified: 2017-03-03 13:01:10

I retired the project today, stopped including the credits last week. The CPID issue is probably due to the redirect.

I'll recover the data from vLHC from a few days ago. Unfortunately, the backup includes all projects and vLHC is at the end of the backup.

It's funny... Just yesterday I thought about how long I didn't have to use the backups.
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Tuna Ertemalp
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2017-03-03 16:15:51

Thanks! Just because I am OCD , I went ahead and manually (i.e. using Excel) summed up all the credits under MyDetailedStats/ProjectList and found my "BOINC combined" credits to be exactly (and correctly) the same as the sum of the rest of the projects on that page MINUS that of vLHChome, which is now correctly listed as retired. Looking fwd to it having the right data from the backup to represent accurate historical snapshot as of its retirement.

Next up: ATLAS@home is in the works... http://atlasathome.cern.ch/forum_thread.php?id=660

And, possibly some BS/BAM cleanup for Beauty@LHC: https://boincstats.com/en/forum/18/10989

Tuna
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2017-04-24 16:43:38

Looks like my points from ATLAS appeared under LHC. May be time to move ATLAS off the active list.
[BOINCstats] Willy
 
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2017-04-25 14:35:00

Retired the project.
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Dirk Broer
 
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2017-05-10 19:08:14

[BOINCstats Willy wrote:

Retired the project.


ATLAS points are still counting for grand total, despite having been integrated -both users and credit score- into LHC@Home.
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