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Tuna Ertemalp
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2015-05-13 15:29:59
last modified: 2015-05-13 15:30:43

[AF>HFR>RR ThierryH wrote:

Please, read carefuly Keep4eveR's principle and make your own opinion.

Tuna, I have nothing against you, but you're Microsoft team funder, and Microsost have interest that Keep4eveR can't live.



Thierry, I would suggest that you keep this conversation on a factual level as opposed to throwing darts at what I have done in my career. I am just someone who has worked at Microsoft for 23.5 half years, from age 25 to 48, doing development work, ranging from an individual developer to a mentor to a lead to a development manager, working about 80-100 hours a week, starting with Microsoft Project and ending with Microsoft Office. I have never worked for SkyDrive, LiveMesh, OneDrive, or any other reincarnation of such distributed file storage and backup systems. Even if I had, my words/actions would be totally nonbinding to Microsoft's current policies of which I am blissfully unaware. At the moment, I use OneDrive and DropBox, along with a homegrown system of two RAID5 NAS drives at home each 7Tb, located at different points in my house to protect against any earthquake/water damage as well as theft. And, if your system were to work as a commercial, proven and fully supported system that can backup Terabytes of data fast and secure and efficiently, both at the storage and restoration end, including doing versioning as each file changes throughout its lifetime, I might give it a try.

But the conversation here is if it is appropriate to keep it as a BOINC project and lure people to donate their machines as storage devices lured by BOINC credits. That is the only point in this endeavour that I am questioning. Let's keep the discussion limited to that as opposed to my past and your perception of what hidden plans and desires I or Microsoft might have regarding your project, because there is none.

I wish you all the good luck in making this a reality. However, keep in mind that many projects that depend on many customers providing some support (BitTorrent, BTSync, Spotify, etc.) reached this without piggybacking on existing scientific platforms like BOINC.

Tuna

PS: If you (or anyone else) is really open to hear the truth as opposed to believing an urban story that sells newspapers: We worked 80-100hrs/week at Microsoft NOT to take over the world and quash our competition with mediocre software, but because we were absolutely paranoid that someone else would make something better and make us look like idiots. I remember so many sleepless nights I spent alongside my team when I heard that a customer found a bug or some bad behaviour in something I worked for so long and hard. We took pride in what we did, and took any problems very personally. You can chose to believe me, or some popular notion that any big corporation like Microsoft is just an evil blob. Remember: If you are successful enough in anything you are doing, however small it is now, one day you might become a large corporation, and people will think you are evil no matter what your intentions were & are. Just like it happened to Google; they started with "Do no evil" in their corporate bylaws, and are now involved in many very very large international lawsuits.

Coleslaw
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2015-05-13 22:30:44

I don't see how giving BOINC points for doing non-BOINC work is in the spirit of things. Should I get BOINC points for driving my car to work? I think not.

P2P isn't just sharing your files with millions. That is only how the mainstream has used it. So, this could be labeled P2P.

Cruncher Pete
 
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2015-05-13 22:39:55

[AF>HFR>RR ThierryH wrote:

Please, read carefuly Keep4eveR's principle and make your own opinion.

Tuna, I have nothing against you, but you're Microsoft team funder, and Microsost have interest that Keep4eveR can't live.



I have carefully read Keep4everR's principle and made my own opinion. My personal feeling is that it is not a BOINC Project as it does not use a BOINC software and neither does it use a wrapper that incorporates element of the BOINC software. Accordingly,it does not belong here. I have also read Tuna's reply to you and I found that he was very helpful to you in his suggestions. Yet you have attacked him on the grounds that he is a founder of Microsoft Team. Obviously, you do not like Microsoft but why throw stones on a person who does not even represent Microsoft officially. Reading his reply, he was obviously trying to help you by suggesting an alternative venue for your idea. Your point of view of not liking Microsoft is fair enough but it is a personal view and has nothing to do with your software being hosted here on a BOINC Stats site. Remember that 99% of BOINC projects use Microsoft Operating System. Personal attacks on Microsoft do not win you favors and in deed makes you look bad when you are trying to win over members to join your project. You had a fair hearing, it is not for me.
Cruncher Pete
 
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2015-05-13 23:33:19

My final remarks that I should have mentioned in my last post. ThieryH Solutions SARL is a registered commercial entity subject to French Law. All Commercial Companies advertise in order to create a larger customer base hence increase profits. Keep4eveR is obviously under that umbrella. So far it had a week of free advertising. Remember that there is no such thing as a free dinner, you will pay for it sooner or later. Should you wish to support this Company, it is your choice, but consider this:

1. The Company is not using a BOINC Software, therefore I maintain that it does not belong in the BOINC Community.

2. You will be allowing your Hard Drive to store data that you have no knowledge what it contains for it is encrypted.

3. By allowing the software to store your data somewhere else is not as safe as storing your backup at your own site on another Harddrive such as an External one and still keep it on site.

4. Being a Commercial Company, it will cost you money sooner or later. Caviet Amptor. Beware, for i just can not see that a Commercial Company is so kind to the ideas of BOINC that they offer this to us free. It might be free to download and Free to use but will more than likely be subjected to a clause that will require to pay later on or they will use your Hard Drive storage capacity for free for which they will get paid by others.
[AF>Le_Pommier] Jerome_C2005
 
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2015-05-14 16:26:25

Interesting. So, for example, Google and Facebook are lying from the beginning when they say their services are free and it will cost you sooner or later, right ? Both are doing money at another level, their business model was not obvious at all at the beginning, why did you and do you all use their services still ?

And if your data is stored somewhere-where-you-don't-have-a-clue by a commercial company (re Tuna's remark) then it is safe, but if it is free, it is not safe. I like the logic. For my part I'm pretty sure that my data is more likely to be "visited" when hosted on a big American company machines than on a individual machine using K4R, just because the big company is much more likely to have the technology for it, and the commercial interest, or forced by a government, or whatever.

And yes, the bigger, the more evil. Capitalist model and money greed just push toward this. Small people working in big companies are a majority of honest and hard working people that often believe in what they do, and want to do well. But they don't drive the big company, the top management and the shareholders do, and their only interest is the money and the ways to generate more, regardless of the human cost.


But all this is my own opinion and is completely off-topic, like most of what you say above.

The only on topic thing here is about the legitimacy of awarding boinc credit or not for K4R.

I agree it is not a scientific project, and if being a scientific project is the only criteria to be able to be part of the BOINC world, then you have a point.

But then please do remove all credit for Bitcoin Utopia, because there is just NOTHING scientific into what they are doing. (I know that BoincStats is one of the few statistical sites that propose a "non BU" count of BOINC credits, and this is good, but you also have the "with BU" stats in it).

And I'm pretty sure that by revising in detail the full list of boinc project we may have some unpleasant surprises.
[AF>Le_Pommier] Jerome_C2005
 
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2015-05-15 11:54:15

Oh, slightly off topic again, but I think I understand why Bitcoin Utopia is welcome here, though it's not a scientific project, at all.

That's how the world goes, isn't it ?

Guest

2015-05-15 12:18:13

[AF>Le_Pommier Jerome_C2005 wrote:

Oh, slightly off topic again, but I think I understand why Bitcoin Utopia is welcome here, though it's not a scientific project, at all.

That's how the world goes, isn't it ?





bull!
it's welcome here because it uses the BOINC software, therefor falls under the confines of BOINC

go back and get your project to run under the BOINC software and there will be less resistance to it be included!
[BOINCstats] Willy
 
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2015-05-15 12:38:14

[AF>Le_Pommier Jerome_C2005 wrote:

Oh, slightly off topic again, but I think I understand why Bitcoin Utopia is welcome here, though it's not a scientific project, at all.

That's how the world goes, isn't it ?



BU was added to BS months before they offered to run a campaign to pay for the failed RAID controller.

Please don't start a flame war.
Please do not PM, IM or email me for support (they will go unread/ignored). Use the forum for support.
[AF>Le_Pommier] Jerome_C2005
 
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2015-05-15 13:30:04

OK sorry you are right I was a bit heated up by some of the negative arguments that I've been reading on this topic, some of them clearly "against" just because they want to, and not very objective imho...

But ok so at least the criteria to be considered for a "boinc project" whose stats can be published here is "use the boinc software" and not "is a scientific project", so at least this is more clear.

K4R is explaining in detail why it could not use boinc software in its FAQ, so I won't copy again loads of text here.
Coleslaw
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2015-05-15 14:51:34

BOINC and the posting of its stats does not require anything "scientific". That is just a donor preference that is touted when they dislike its use elsewhere. Luckily, they are not the ones making all of the decisions.

However, if you aren't running BOINC in any way, then awarding BOINC credits bastardizes the system. Like I said above, I should not get BOINC credit simply for driving my car. Why should I get BOINC credit for using your service? It matters NOT why you don't use the BOINC software. Your reasons for using other software can not justify rewarding users with BOINC credit when the service they are helping you provide literally has nothing to do with BOINC. If you don't get that, then you are merely beating a dead horse.
Tuna Ertemalp
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2015-05-15 21:31:18

Coleslaw wrote:

.... if you aren't running BOINC in any way, then awarding BOINC credits bastardizes the system. .... It matters NOT why you don't use the BOINC software. Your reasons for using other software can not justify rewarding users with BOINC credit when the service they are helping you provide literally has nothing to do with BOINC.


STE\/E
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2015-05-15 22:12:08

[AF>Le_Pommier Jerome_C2005 wrote:

Oh, slightly off topic again, but I think I understand why Bitcoin Utopia is welcome here, though it's not a scientific project, at all.

That's how the world goes, isn't it ?




If it's not a BOINC Project running BOINC Software I'm not running it & it doesn't belong in the BOINC Stat's either ... IMO
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