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Cruncher Pete
 
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2015-05-21 03:09:26

On questioning the current and future plan of Pirates@Home in their forum, I got this reply from a Volunteer Tester:

"Pirates is just a fun project. It does no real work when it does run. Work is sent out at least once a year."

The last News item was sent out in Sep 2010, 4 1/2 years ago. This is obviously not an active project and has no current legitimate purpose. I have deleted the project from the BOINC List of Known Active Projects. I recommend that BOINCStats does the same and retire the project to save us time to research weather the project is still alive.
Curly
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2015-05-21 08:20:47

Pirates has work from time to time. It's still true what they wrote: "... Work is sent out at least once a year."

See http://boincstats.com/en/stats/4/project/detail/credit.
Cruncher Pete
 
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2015-05-21 21:52:57

Curly wrote:

Pirates has work from time to time. It's still true what they wrote: "... Work is sent out at least once a year."

See http://boincstats.com/en/stats/4/project/detail/credit.


If you wish to retain it that is fine with me.

I have deleted it on the basis that it is not a BOINC Project for by their own admission it does nothing. To me that bags the question, Is it run just to collect email addresses?, or some other hidden agenda.. I am not accusing them, just stating that it is questionable. My intent is to make the job of a volunteer easier by providing an up to date list of Active projects. It seems to me that the Admins do not care that we need to waste time trying to find out if the project is still alive by not talking to their overall users telling them when are they expect the next lot of WU's and to tell them what is the purpose of those WU's. Crunching units that does not mean anything is purely helping the Electricity companies. The last message to the users in the NEWS section of the front page was over 4 years ago.
NATE1
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2015-05-21 23:49:55

Cruncher Pete [BlackOpsTeam wrote:

Curly wrote:

Pirates has work from time to time. It's still true what they wrote: "... Work is sent out at least once a year."

See http://boincstats.com/en/stats/4/project/detail/credit.


If you wish to retain it that is fine with me.

I have deleted it on the basis that it is not a BOINC Project for by their own admission it does nothing. To me that bags the question, Is it run just to collect email addresses?, or some other hidden agenda.. I am not accusing them, just stating that it is questionable. My intent is to make the job of a volunteer easier by providing an up to date list of Active projects. It seems to me that the Admins do not care that we need to waste time trying to find out if the project is still alive by not talking to their overall users telling them when are they expect the next lot of WU's and to tell them what is the purpose of those WU's. Crunching units that does not mean anything is purely helping the Electricity companies. The last message to the users in the NEWS section of the front page was over 4 years ago.


it did work at one time. the main reason it is still around is that the admin keeps it for sentimental reasons.
nothing more, nothing less...
Coleslaw
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2015-05-22 02:56:49

What Nate1 says is true, but what Curly fails to address is that the "work" sent out does nothing. This is just for fun. Kinda like the Pizza@home project was.
[BOINCstats] Willy
 
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2015-06-13 07:38:15

Pirates is retired.
Please do not PM, IM or email me for support (they will go unread/ignored). Use the forum for support.
schensi
 
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2015-06-14 16:12:25

Sorry , Willy , but Pirates is not dead . I just got some work from the Project ( only the very short yellows ), but work.
And fun Project or not , who will desire ? The Project has a lot of fans , who will be very sad to see it no more in your stats.
reklov
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2015-06-14 17:16:34

[BOINCstats Willy wrote:

Pirates is retired.

Today I got several wu and now have to wait on my wingman
Curly
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2015-06-14 17:32:52
last modified: 2015-06-14 17:37:43

schensi wrote:

Sorry , Willy , but Pirates is not dead . I just got some work from the Project ( only the very short yellows ), but work.
And fun Project or not , who will desire ? The Project has a lot of fans , who will be very sad to see it no more in your stats.



That is what I said. But one person judged that Pirates is not a worthy project.
Cruncher Pete
 
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2015-06-14 22:53:41

Curly wrote:

schensi wrote:

Sorry , Willy , but Pirates is not dead . I just got some work from the Project ( only the very short yellows ), but work.
And fun Project or not , who will desire ? The Project has a lot of fans , who will be very sad to see it no more in your stats.



That is what I said. But one person judged that Pirates is not a worthy project.


That person was me and I stand by my conviction. However, all members had ample opportunity to discuss the case before Willy decided to Retire it, therefore to say that it was retired because one person judged that Pirates is not a worthy project is not fair on Willy. If you think that the project was retired prematurely than I suggest we start another thread on "When should a project be considered Active/Inactive and or Retired". Allow sufficient time for replies, formulate a result of our findings and submit it to Willy for consideration.

Please note that I am not authorized to speak on behalf of the BOINC Developers or for BOINCStats for I am just another Volunteer. I just voice my opinion and back it up by what is available on the Official BOINC Web site and promulgated in BOINC Wiki as to what is considered to be a valid BOINC project. Bear in mind that they also trying to protect you the volunteer from unscrupulous projects that have an ulterior motive that is not designed to help any research.

I suggest for those that do not consider Valid BOINC Projects to be enough fun is to join a Stats site that specializes in all Volunteer Distributed Network projects. There are a number of them. BOINC is not a game. If you are using your spare resources of your computer to chase credits from projects that do not do any valuable work than you are missing out helping researchers that NEEDS YOU to help them find a cure for Cancer for example or any other projects that is considered a valid BOINC project.
Coleslaw
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2015-06-15 00:36:20

If people can get off of their soap boxes for a minute, perhaps we can get back to the issue. Whether or not projects like Pirates@home should be kept track of here at BOINCStats. The project is active. Just not as often as people tend to like. The project has no "real work" that does anything when it is sent out. But nowhere on BOINCStats does it say the project must do anything of use in any particular way to be included. Since Willy pretty much relies on the public to keep up on things, perhaps he should create a voting or poll thread with a standardized period of time for people to vote. Maybe even make a popup when people log in to notify people of a needed vote. Not everyone looks at the forums on a regular basis.

If you want a project that actually does something to be your criteria, then you are going to get into a whole philosophical debate on what that means as there are many projects that we don't see a whole lot of real world benefit from... Just saying.
Ageless
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2015-06-15 19:58:10
last modified: 2015-06-15 19:59:46

Cruncher Pete [BlackOpsTeam wrote:
I have deleted it on the basis that it is not a BOINC Project for by their own admission it does nothing.

Pirates@home started off as a test project for the Einstein project. At Pirates the BOINC forum code was tested, as well as whether or not the Einstein screen saver worked. The screen saver was originally programmed by Eric Myers, now administrator of Pirates@Home.

It's been in the air since late 2004.
To me that bags the question, Is it run just to collect email addresses?, or some other hidden agenda.

Eric tests out new code from time to time. But the last couple of years he hasn't had much time due to Amanda, his adopted daughter. Her handicap makes it that he has little time to update the project, or do all the things he wanted to do. Perhaps again in the future.

Pirates is not a project you add to run up a huge credit tab, because the work runs fast, pays little and the server will back off an hour after each scheduler request. The work is also only available very sporadically. Mostly around birthdays and the 'Talk like a Pirate' day. So just because it doesn't behave the way you are used to from other projects, does that make it questionable, untrustworthy? That the project is actively regulated is shown by the complete lack of spammers.
Cruncher Pete
 
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2015-06-15 23:03:51

Sorry Jord but you have not convinced me that this project should be classified as an Active BOINC Project. Eric has not said one word to his supporters in the NEWS section for four years. I do not believe that we should classify a Project Active because it runs a couple of Work Units a few times a year and even than for a short time only without us knowing what those work units are doing.. With all due respect, if Eric had no time for four years and issues periodic Work Units only a few times a year than I suggest that he should consider closing the project and restart it when he finds time and a purpose for running the project currently. It could be easily reinstated at that time. If our machines are set to run all Active projects as is our choice than when we are crunching Pirate Work Units that does nothing bar issuing Credit than we are depriving other Projects that have a purpose for their projects of our support as your CPU is occupied on a work unit that does nothing. I realize that the choice of weather I run it or not is my choice. The fact is that if it is included in the Stats site and it does nothing for months than I am wasting my time researching the project weather it is still active. The cost of maintaining my equipment and paying for the Electricity is considerable. If I am a BAM user, I can't even detach from the site unless I detach from BOINC first.

This is a Stats site that gathers information from BOINC Projects and not just publishes credits but Manages your Account to make your job a lot easier. Since it is a private site, it is up to Willy the founder and manager as to what he wants to include in the site. He too has a Real Life and his time is limited. He listens to peoples opinion and acts only on them according to his own beliefs and time to manage the database. I am just a volunteer like any who suggests from time to time what I would like to see published in here. Please note that Pirates@Home does not meet the criteria to be published in the official "Validated" list of BOINC Projects. By their own admission, the project does nothing. The fact that it did some Test work years ago qualify it to be a BOINC project?. Admittedly, anybody can run a BOINC project for their own personal use. As to publishing it becomes a problem. If it does nothing and has done nothing for years than why is is a BOINC project? Surely, just by the fact that it runs BOINC software does not make it a legitimate project that we should automatically follow. It is up to the user to make a choice and it is also up to the manager of a Stat site to make his choice weather he should advertise that project.
Ageless
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2015-06-16 00:05:33
last modified: 2015-06-16 00:24:00

Cruncher Pete [BlackOpsTeam wrote:
...and a purpose for running the project currently.

Just because you don't find that what he's doing with his own project is one that's purposeful, doesn't mean it doesn't have a purpose.

..crunching Pirate Work Units that does nothing bar issuing Credit

It's a fun project. Don't you understand the meaning of fun?

..than we are depriving other Projects that have a purpose for their projects of our support as your CPU is occupied on a work unit that does nothing.

Hahahahahaha, you're funny.
It shows you aren't running Pirates tasks. As else you'd know that what we're running at the moment is the Hello, BOINC World application that runs for 7 to 10 seconds depending on hardware. They have a deadline 3 hours into the future, so they will run immediately. And since the project has that 1 hour server back-off after every scheduler contact, this means that it can take up to 2 hours between getting work and reporting before asking for new work. Ample time for your other projects to be worked on.

...it is up to Willy the founder and manager as to what he wants to include in the site.

Oh, I am not saying Willy should put it back here, that's for him to decide, and is something that Eric told me as well.
Eric Myers wrote:
Willy is free to remove it, but he can also put it back if he wants.
We may actually have another mission soon.


But the official BOINC Wiki is another story. Now, one thing you don't know is that Eric is a full admin at the Wiki. He and I have been battling thousands of spammers there at one point and been granted all rights possible. So, as you may have noticed, Eric has undone your decision to remove his project from the projects list there. I'd say, learn from the experience.
Ageless
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2015-06-16 01:14:02
last modified: 2015-06-16 01:15:30

Cruncher Pete [BlackOpsTeam wrote:
Eric has not said one word to his supporters in the NEWS section for four years.

But he has been answering in the forums since that time. So if that's not active enough for you, let's look around a bit how other projects fare.

http://www.cosmologyathome.org/ hasn't had a news update since July 2012 and none of its administrators have been active in their forums for absolute ages. Work still seems to be 'flowing', but no one knows what's done with it. Yet you allow this project to be in the Projects List in the Wiki.

http://www.enigmaathome.net/ hasn't had a news update since June 2013 and TJM disappears for months without anyone knowing where he's gone to. Is he still alive? It's been 107 days since he last answered in the forums, or removed the spammers.

http://radioactiveathome.org/en/, last news July 2012. The admin is active in the forums, but if we base activity on the NEWS, it's a dead project.

And then there are plenty of projects that have not updated their news since some date in 2014. Should we be worried about them as well?
Cruncher Pete
 
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2015-06-16 03:49:27

To put Pirates@Home back on the list is not ethical or fair. I wish you at least discussed it with me in private. I volunteered to maintain that site as no body else did for it was full of old retired projects that have been dead for years. The fact that both you and Eric are Admins is irrelevant. Please note that I did not remove any projects that are currently considered active therefore the other two subjects you mention are irrelevant for this thread. We are not discussing how to manage the BOINC Wicki here, the subject is "Time to Retire Pirates@Home. So please do not Hijack the site.

Looking at the stats, I am sure that there are others who think that this site is not just for fun. I consider that we can have ample fun by running projects that does something. Looking at the stats, I consider that there are plenty of others who spend $1000.00 a month on purchasing, maintaining their equipment and pay for their electricity to run those machines. I was attracted to this site and to BOINC in general because I was under the impression that if I help Scientists in their research we can all receive the benefit from our efforts. By running projects for FUN that says "Hello World" will never attract me to waste electricity and my time on. If the project does not clearly define their objective I suggest to approach it with caution, but I will not waste time and Electricity on it. If a project does not utilize the NEWS section on their main page in the website, does not talk to their supporters, does not thank them occasionally for their effort than I consider that they do not care about their volunteers. To suggest to read their Message board is not a realistic suggestion. Can you truly say that you have time to search hundreds of messages a day on every project?. As far as I am concerned, if a project does not wish to tell us what is going on in a clearly defined area that is provided by the software than I will not waste my time and electricity on. If a project does not give results of their findings and promulgate these results than I consider that we are wasting our time and electricity. That is my choice. I will continue to defend my statements until I am proven wrong in voicing my opinion.

I have asked many times here and on the BOINC Message Board what is considered to be an Active projects and when should it be taken off the list. No body to date has clarified that to me yet. Perhaps it is time we reevaluate what is the requirement to be considered a BOINC Project for if it is not defined we are wasting time and Electricity on projects that does nothing and is only run for FUN. I do not believe that the intention of creating the BOINC software was to have some sort of game for Fun.
Tom_unoduetre
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2015-06-16 07:39:30

Pete, would it be possible to add a "Fun" category to the official boinc project list and add Pirates there? Maybe mark the fun category with an asteriks if possible and explain to the site visitors that projects under this category don´t have a scientific value and that volunteers should think twice if they want to add those.

Pirates is indeed a strange project, I have attached to it years ago just for fun, until now I have received not really much work (18 credits) but just yesterday I crunched some WUs again, just in time when the project was taken off the project lists. Coincidence? Or destiny? Not sure :-)

So I personally would rather call it active but out of sentimental reasons.
Cruncher Pete
 
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2015-06-16 12:50:03

Tom_unoduetre wrote:

Pete, would it be possible to add a "Fun" category to the official boinc project list and add Pirates there? Maybe mark the fun category with an asteriks if possible and explain to the site visitors that projects under this category don´t have a scientific value and that volunteers should think twice if they want to add those.


I am no longer managing the list as I withdrew my offer to help and asked that my privilege be removed to add, delete, etc. You might ask Eric Meyer and or Ageless to do that since they are both Admins there. Eric is also the Admin of Pirates@Home and he has already put his project back on the list.
[BOINCstats] Willy
 
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2015-06-16 14:51:25

Well done! Another way found to get rid of an enthusiastic volunteer.

Pete, can I ask who asked you to maintain the list and who gave you the necessary rights?
Please do not PM, IM or email me for support (they will go unread/ignored). Use the forum for support.
Cruncher Pete
 
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2015-06-16 22:50:46

[BOINCstats Willy wrote:

Well done! Another way found to get rid of an enthusiastic volunteer.

Pete, can I ask who asked you to maintain the list and who gave you the necessary rights?


Thanks for asking. I was not going to mention this here as it is not the subject of the discussion but it is highly related. Some time ago, I asked in the BOINC Forum What is the retirement policy of BOINC. It was quite apparent that Ageless evaded the question, however others suggested that there is no policy and is an Ad Hoc arrangements. Ageless warned me in a PM to stay away for one week or he will ban me, effectively shutting me up. See https://boinc.berkeley.edu/dev/forum_thread.php?id=9918&postid=59830. Note that I have never abused him in any way bar asking for a reply. So, I stayed away and wrote directly to David Anderson. David gave me a password to the wiki and told me to go ahead and maintain the "Known Project List" as I wish. As I am not a Developer I had no authority to change anything in the list of "validated" projects. Since the list was outdated, all I wanted is to keep it up to date to save volunteers time.

I was not told that Ageless is also an Admin in the Wicki, I discovered that by reading the history of changes. Neither was I told or was aware the Eric Meyer the Admin of Pirates were also an Admin. Prior to removing Pirates, on May 18 I questioned in the Pirates Forum what is the current situation with the project. Eric did not reply directly but a tester advised me that the project is for fun only and the work units are only issued a few times a year and has no purpose. I gave Pirates a Month (less two days) before I removed it from the list as I consider that it is a waste of volunteers time. I know that I can not speak for every volunteer but due to lack of a policy as to when should a Project be considered Active and when should it be Retired, I made the decision that it should not be listed as an Active project.

I considered it to be highly unethical that the project was put back by the Admin of Pirates without discussing it with me. Eric had plenty of opportunity to voice his opinion publicly here but he chose to discuss the matter with Ageless the Admin of BOINC Forum. I advised Dr Anderson that I do not wish to volunteer my services any more and requested that my authority be withdrawn. I was hoping to help but not to be ridiculed, I do not need that. If somebody would have told me that I was wrong to remove it, than I would have put it back if i knew the circumstances.
Coleslaw
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2015-06-17 02:38:17

Sounds like someone made a decision without really finding out the public's opinion on the matter. I'm not saying it was wrong to remove or not, but you can't go off making that decision on your own without expecting others to just override it either. It is a wiki. They get changed and overruled quite often and many of times without just cause or explanation. The problem here is that BOINC has resources without any authoritative oversight. And what little it does have seems more like an after thought resource. Then we have volunteers whom think their vision of BOINC is gospel. Too much short sightedness going on. I'm glad someone stepped up to make things better, but they have to do it with the public's support.
Contact
 
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2015-06-24 02:42:09

How about we have a little group hug here. We are all on the same team - team BOINC.

I like Pirates@Home. Back in 2004 I cut my BOINC teeth there and have since learned more about the inner workings of various BOINC versions because of running this project. SETI is my first project, but Pirates is my teacher.

No, it is not yet time to retire Pirates@Home.
Yes, a mistake was made that resulted in Pirates@Home being removed from all my computers.

Unless you're very different from me we all make many mistakes daily.
Here is an opportunity to correct an honest mistake.
Please restore Pirates as an active project.

SandJ
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2015-06-24 14:41:27

Whether a project is active or not is not determined by whether it is 'worthy'. The n-Queens problem is silly, but I crunched for it. SETI@Home is looking for little green men, FFS - much of the world thinks that is us geeks at our worst, wasting our time. But that was probably the first project I crunched for, starting about 16 years ago. Plenty of people think the search for the Higg's Boson is a spectacular waste of taxpayer's money, but LHC@Home is my highest priority project. That "sheep's electric dreams" distributed application generates pretty screensavers isn't doing anything for science, but 500,000 people support it.

Personally, I think guilting volunteers into donating CPU cycles for wealthy big pharma is an abuse of volunteers' generosity. I refuse to do the medical @home projects; let them buy supercomputers.

I expect most @home volunteers are doing it for fun. I'm not getting paid to do it and I'm not a slave, so what other reason is there but personal gratification?

I do not think the perceived 'worthiness' of a project should have any bearing on its presence in lists. Let the volunteers decide for themselves which projects they want to support.
Cruncher Pete
 
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2015-07-03 00:01:01

Ageless wrote:

Cruncher Pete [BlackOpsTeam wrote:
I have deleted it on the basis that it is not a BOINC Project for by their own admission it does nothing.

Pirates@home started off as a test project for the Einstein project. At Pirates the BOINC forum code was tested, as well as whether or not the Einstein screen saver worked. The screen saver was originally programmed by Eric Myers, now administrator of Pirates@Home.

It's been in the air since late 2004.
To me that bags the question, Is it run just to collect email addresses?, or some other hidden agenda.

Eric tests out new code from time to time. But the last couple of years he hasn't had much time due to Amanda, his adopted daughter. Her handicap makes it that he has little time to update the project, or do all the things he wanted to do. Perhaps again in the future.

Pirates is not a project you add to run up a huge credit tab, because the work runs fast, pays little and the server will back off an hour after each scheduler request. The work is also only available very sporadically. Mostly around birthdays and the 'Talk like a Pirate' day. So just because it doesn't behave the way you are used to from other projects, does that make it questionable, untrustworthy? That the project is actively regulated is shown by the complete lack of spammers.


May I ask why you did not tell me this and all your other comments in a PM instead of shutting me down like this?. After all you were aware that I was an Admin Appointed by Dr David Anderson as well as you and Eric..Even if I made a mistake, one deserves an explanation why it should be reinstated. I for one, will not allow any project to enter my computer and run my CPU cycles if the project only wants to say :"Hello World" which has NO useful PURPOSE other than to have free excess to my machines and issue a few points. I could be wrong, but if I am why not alert me to that fact. Yes, you have the right to say, If you do not like it than go somewhere else.
Roadranner
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2015-07-08 11:47:07

Mistakes were made on both sides - that always happens when communication is malfunctioning.
Many crunchers stopped using BAM! because it deleted the project from all pcs.
The main thing is: When will Pirates be back in the stats?
And please cut Cruncher Pete's admin rights!
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