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Eric5743
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2014-07-13 23:47:45

Yesterday BOINC had a very huge credits output and more than 5.5 billion credits came from Bitcoin Utopia. Bitcoin Utopia is a bitcoin-mining project and many users are using ASIC devices for mining. ASIC looks like a perfect tools for mining, but it can not be used in any other science projects. In other words, the stats from BU are just showing their strong mining power.

Please hide or stop showing the stats from Bitcoin Utopia. Not showing the stats from Bitcoin Utopia will help any guys to know the BOINC's contribution to science. At the end of last year, the FP per secnond was about 8500 TeraFLOPS. But now, I can not read the same thing.
Alez
 
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2014-07-20 01:52:45

Alternatively, why not contact Henri at Bitcoin utopia about supporting Bamstats server fee's as we are already doing for Milkyway@home. Seems a win , win situation to me as I already contribute to the milkyway effort and would definitely contribute towards the Bamstats costs. In fact rather than moaning about bitcoin why don't I ask.
pelpolaris
 
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2014-07-23 10:03:10
last modified: 2014-07-23 10:08:25

alez [ TSBT's Pirate wrote:

Alternatively, why not contact Henri at Bitcoin utopia about supporting Bamstats server fee's as we are already doing for Milkyway@home. Seems a win , win situation to me as I already contribute to the milkyway effort and would definitely contribute towards the Bamstats costs. In fact rather than moaning about bitcoin why don't I ask.


Well, anyone interested in sustaining any BOINC-project through coinmining, may do so, even if Bitcoin utopia (or any other similar) remains outside the BOINC constellation. By now and beside the fact that some few gets their daily huge amount of cobblestones, many more may seem that kind of suspicious win-win intrusion, may destroy the BOINC-spirit and many BOINCers motivation. It's not forbidden to remind for oneself what the main purpose of BOINC has been and may still be in the future.

I'm (and probably a significant amount of other BOINCers too) looking forward to see Bitcoin Utopia disappearing from this area.
tazzduke
 
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2014-07-26 04:27:49

+1 in favour of the context of the subject.

Gert
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2014-08-03 12:42:31

Agreed. It's quite annoying to see someone who's just been active for a few days just pass thousands and thousands of people who have been spending years of computing power to support BOINC projects.
EmSti [BlackOps]
 
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2014-08-03 16:54:56

Please see my post in in this thread

I am willing to entertain the notion of reducing credits, but the math seems to support that the credits are reasonable for the work done.

I would rather see a reasoned discussion on the credits based fairness of the work done than the removal of stats because some feel that too much work is getting done too fast and as a results more credits are being earned. Of course that discussion is probably more appropriate in the other thread lined above.

For the purposes of this thread, I would be opposed to the removal of credits for folks on any project that are doing computation that have benefit or for which people are interested in the outcome for credits. I can't judge benefit for everyone or every project, but for the BU project I like that they are supporting MilkyWay, another project that I like and crunch.

blurf
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2014-08-07 02:04:04

Please do not remove BoincUtopia from Boincstats. We know David Anderson is putting pressure on Boincstats to do this.

It is a Boinc project and belongs here.

Thank you.
Grandpa_01
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2014-09-20 16:44:01

I for one am leaving Boinc due to this issue I do not wish to use my 464 cpu cores and 4 GPU's to compete against ASIC miners. According to Boinc stats there is a far greater need and value for the supposed science done by ASIC miners than CPU's and GPU's, so be it, That is Boinc projects choice and I will make my choice. I will find something else to do with my donation and will be switching over by the end of September. I myself believe all of the credit should be removed and placed in it own separate category or reduced and brought in line with the majority of Boinc projects. #1 being my first choice.

I will not choose to participate in a supposed science project that thinks the value of a non supported corruption laced currency has a greater value than a science project does.

EmSti [BlackOps]
 
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2014-09-20 17:37:09

Grandpa_01 wrote:

I for one am leaving Boinc due to this issue I do not wish to use my 464 cpu cores and 4 GPU's to compete against ASIC miners. According to Boinc stats there is a far greater need and value for the supposed science done by ASIC miners than CPU's and GPU's, so be it, That is Boinc projects choice and I will make my choice. I will find something else to do with my donation and will be switching over by the end of September. I myself believe all of the credit should be removed and placed in it own separate category or reduced and brought in line with the majority of Boinc projects. #1 being my first choice.

I will not choose to participate in a supposed science project that thinks the value of a non supported corruption laced currency has a greater value than a science project does.




I love posts like this. I cannot compete so I quit. Someone's toys are better than mine, so I am going home with my toys. If the community or some project doesn't change I am going to take my valuable self away. We have already proven more than once that the computational power and work done is real. The sad part is you are thinking about it side ways, you are not competing against ASICs.

It is so simple. Compete within the projects you love. Enjoy crunching and pushing and getting better in the arenas of your choice. The points between projects were never really comparable and never will be. Let it go and stop looking at the combined. Everyone is so judgmental on what is a good and bad project and everyone will never agree. Get over it and yourself. Pick what you want to do and enjoy it. This whine about what projects should or should not pay has been going on for years. It will never change, even if they add categories. Go after badges, go after credits and milestones in projects of your choice and let others choose for themselves. Compete in challenges for fun, compete with teammates for who can get the most out of a single machine, see how much good work you can do for projects of your choosing in the least amount of time. There are so many ways to have fun here, don't let whining about credits blind you to the opportunities here.

People are whining in one breath that it is about the science and ranting about credits in the next. It just shows for those folks it is truly about the credits. Which is fine, but think about it in terms of the good you are doing for the projects you deem interesting and worth your time and money. I like to compete as much as the next cruncher. I did it in terms of can my 3 PCs get me into the top ten daily on any project I decided to crunch. I didn't always like the project I picked to crunch but picked/crunched them for othe reason I like - Formula Boinc, team goals, team challenges and the Pentathlon. The team activities are a blast, so it was worth the crunching power on the projects.

If it is truly about the science for someone, none of this topic should matter to them. Don't let a silly thing like credits get in the way of doing the good work.

Taking your stuff and leaving only really affects you and projects you want to help. Wouldn't it be more fun with your setup to see how many CPU projects you can get to the top 100 or picking a GPU project as seeing what good you can do? It simply requires changing the mind set and ignore combined totals.

I guess it is easy for me to say since I have already retired from BONIC. At least it was a choice of what I want to do next now that I am done playing here and not some whiny excuse.

Grandpa_01
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2014-09-21 02:06:04

EmSti [BlackOps wrote:

Grandpa_01 wrote:

I for one am leaving Boinc due to this issue I do not wish to use my 464 cpu cores and 4 GPU's to compete against ASIC miners. According to Boinc stats there is a far greater need and value for the supposed science done by ASIC miners than CPU's and GPU's, so be it, That is Boinc projects choice and I will make my choice. I will find something else to do with my donation and will be switching over by the end of September. I myself believe all of the credit should be removed and placed in it own separate category or reduced and brought in line with the majority of Boinc projects. #1 being my first choice.

I will not choose to participate in a supposed science project that thinks the value of a non supported corruption laced currency has a greater value than a science project does.




I love posts like this. I cannot compete so I quit. Someone's toys are better than mine, so I am going home with my toys. If the community or some project doesn't change I am going to take my valuable self away. We have already proven more than once that the computational power and work done is real. The sad part is you are thinking about it side ways, you are not competing against ASICs.

It is so simple. Compete within the projects you love. Enjoy crunching and pushing and getting better in the arenas of your choice. The points between projects were never really comparable and never will be. Let it go and stop looking at the combined. Everyone is so judgmental on what is a good and bad project and everyone will never agree. Get over it and yourself. Pick what you want to do and enjoy it. This whine about what projects should or should not pay has been going on for years. It will never change, even if they add categories. Go after badges, go after credits and milestones in projects of your choice and let others choose for themselves. Compete in challenges for fun, compete with teammates for who can get the most out of a single machine, see how much good work you can do for projects of your choosing in the least amount of time. There are so many ways to have fun here, don't let whining about credits blind you to the opportunities here.

People are whining in one breath that it is about the science and ranting about credits in the next. It just shows for those folks it is truly about the credits. Which is fine, but think about it in terms of the good you are doing for the projects you deem interesting and worth your time and money. I like to compete as much as the next cruncher. I did it in terms of can my 3 PCs get me into the top ten daily on any project I decided to crunch. I didn't always like the project I picked to crunch but picked/crunched them for othe reason I like - Formula Boinc, team goals, team challenges and the Pentathlon. The team activities are a blast, so it was worth the crunching power on the projects.

If it is truly about the science for someone, none of this topic should matter to them. Don't let a silly thing like credits get in the way of doing the good work.

Taking your stuff and leaving only really affects you and projects you want to help. Wouldn't it be more fun with your setup to see how many CPU projects you can get to the top 100 or picking a GPU project as seeing what good you can do? It simply requires changing the mind set and ignore combined totals.

I guess it is easy for me to say since I have already retired from BONIC. At least it was a choice of what I want to do next now that I am done playing here and not some whiny excuse.




Guess what I have no respect for any of the ASIC miners running on Boinc projects, Your rant is useless and meaningless to me and does not affect me or my decision in the least I have lost all respect for the teams that are running them and the people who are defending there lopsided credit They are useless as a science tool. The only thing they are good for is credit.

Tell me why are you running them and why do you want them to count in Boinc stats why not move them to there own category, everything you said above applies to you. As I said above I like to be completive I did not try to hide that or make any claims diffrentley. I can not be completive against ASIC miners and they are doing something totally different than what I am. I choose to do science projects which is what Boinc used to be and I was completive at it. Boinc has changed now to be completive you need to run bitcoin mining .

I will not run miners and support what I feel to be a foolish wast of time and money and support anything that is as corrupt as bitcoin currency is. Boinc has chosen to allow the lopsided credit thus supporting it. That is their choice, all decisions have consequences and my decision to leave boinc projects because of this decision just happens to be one of them, others may choose to do the same as I have, or, they may not.

Anyway enjoy your bitcoin mining and all the science it produces.
noderaser
 
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2014-09-21 02:07:03

Grandpa_01 wrote:
I for one am leaving Boinc due to this issue I do not wish to use my 464 cpu cores and 4 GPU's to compete against ASIC miners. According to Boinc stats there is a far greater need and value for the supposed science done by ASIC miners than CPU's and GPU's, so be it, That is Boinc projects choice and I will make my choice. I will find something else to do with my donation and will be switching over by the end of September. I myself believe all of the credit should be removed and placed in it own separate category or reduced and brought in line with the majority of Boinc projects. #1 being my first choice.

It's very unfortunate that you are chosing to penalize all of the other projects, because someone decided to use open-source software to raise funds for various things. They don't have control over who uses BOINC to create a project, neither does its creators. Surely, you can make the comparisons you seek by excluding the project you find offensive? Has no other stats site excluded Bitcoin Utopia? If not, organize capable individuals and start a new one, the data is available publicly from the projects themselves. I think it would be interesting to have a stats site with a feature to exclude certain projects from its cross-project "combined" stats.

I've been running BOINC for 10 years now (SETI, UD WCG and Folding for a few prior to that) and have no intentions of abandoning it, although I do find the justifications for the high credit awards difficult to believe--for example, that BU has done more computation in these few short months than all other projects over the last 10 years. But, it could just be a wakeup call that there are new technologies out there that can offer better performance; ASICs and FPGAs can be either built or programmed to do work for other projects, though they would be specialized for that project. Although it's a big jump, it's not any more unfair than it is for a user with one computer, versus someone who spends money building multi-GPU farming rigs. It also doesn't mean that the one-computer user should stop computing; even though single users with multiple powerful hosts may have a lot of credit, credit from users of lesser means is still a significant factor.

Until this all gets sorted out, don't give up on BOINC. Don't let arbitrary statistics dictate whether your contribution is significant or not. All of the projects who use volunteer resources for actual data processingand research still need you, and your neighbor, and his friend, your family, etc...
STE\/E
Tester
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2014-09-21 11:39:36

@ Grandpa, It's a good thing most BOINC Users don't have your Mindset, if they did there might be only 100 BOINC Users still running today. I could have quit 12 Years ago before I even started running BOINC, for how was I a Lone Home BOINC User ever supposed to Compete with 1 Lowly P2 Computer against all the People that have Access to Corporate/Company/Collage Computers & slap their User Name on them at no Cost to themselves ???

I didn't worry about it that other's were much more proficient at garnering Credits than I was, I just ran the Projects I wanted to run & over the Years slowly built up my Home Pharm. When the GPU's 1'st came out I had a Ahh Hah moment & jumped all over them even though the same arguments against them were started much like the arguments started against the ASIC now. I slowly worked my way up into the BOINC World #1 Position & held others off for quite a few Years. Then of my own choosing I decided to for all practical purposes stop running the GPU's at the Project's. Once again I didn't worry about others running me down as I slipped to 3'rd in the BOINC World & was about to slip to 4'th & even lower as others caught & passed me. Then another Ahh Hah moment came along with the BU Project, once again I jumped all over the New Technology & regained then lost & then again regained the World #1 Spot as others have been slow in getting on board at BU. I have no Idea where the ASIC's or the BU Projects place will be in BOINC but for now it's Top Dog so I'll run it.

You can Stay or Leave BOINC but very very few people will even care or even remember you for more than 5 Min's after your gone especially the way you say you going out. Most People if they remember you at all will just say Oh yeah he was the guy that started Whining about not wanting to compete against newer technology but was perfectly happy beating up on lesser equipped people "I know as you have spanked me good in some of the BoincStats Challenges"with his supposed 464 CPU Core's where ever he got them from. If you were truly the Competitive person you say you are you would stay in BOINC & run the Projects you want to run or do something about the ASIC's running you over or get some of your own. But no for you it's probably it's a lot easier to just start crying about it & run home with your tail between your legs than it is to stand & put up a fight at the Projects of your choosing.

I highly Suspect there will be a Change coming down the road in how the Stats are reported at the Stat's Site's. The prevailing ideas now are for the Participants to Select the Projects they want to show & Deselect the ones they don't want to show. So there's really no need for anyone to leave BOINC as they will eventually be able to leave the BU Project out of the Stat's they show ...
Grandpa_01
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2014-09-21 16:08:52
last modified: 2014-09-21 16:10:17

STE/E [BlackOps wrote:

@ Grandpa, It's a good thing most BOINC Users don't have your Mindset, if they did there might be only 100 BOINC Users still running today. I could have quit 12 Years ago before I even started running BOINC, for how was I a Lone Home BOINC User ever supposed to Compete with 1 Lowly P2 Computer against all the People that have Access to Corporate/Company/Collage Computers & slap their User Name on them at no Cost to themselves ???

I didn't worry about it that other's were much more proficient at garnering Credits than I was, I just ran the Projects I wanted to run & over the Years slowly built up my Home Pharm. When the GPU's 1'st came out I had a Ahh Hah moment & jumped all over them even though the same arguments against them were started much like the arguments started against the ASIC now. I slowly worked my way up into the BOINC World #1 Position & held others off for quite a few Years. Then of my own choosing I decided to for all practical purposes stop running the GPU's at the Project's. Once again I didn't worry about others running me down as I slipped to 3'rd in the BOINC World & was about to slip to 4'th & even lower as others caught & passed me. Then another Ahh Hah moment came along with the BU Project, once again I jumped all over the New Technology & regained then lost & then again regained the World #1 Spot as others have been slow in getting on board at BU. I have no Idea where the ASIC's or the BU Projects place will be in BOINC but for now it's Top Dog so I'll run it.

You can Stay or Leave BOINC but very very few people will even care or even remember you for more than 5 Min's after your gone especially the way you say you going out. Most People if they remember you at all will just say Oh yeah he was the guy that started Whining about not wanting to compete against newer technology but was perfectly happy beating up on lesser equipped people "I know as you have spanked me good in some of the BoincStats Challenges"with his supposed 464 CPU Core's where ever he got them from. If you were truly the Competitive person you say you are you would stay in BOINC & run the Projects you want to run or do something about the ASIC's running you over or get some of your own. But no for you it's probably it's a lot easier to just start crying about it & run home with your tail between your legs than it is to stand & put up a fight at the Projects of your choosing.

I highly Suspect there will be a Change coming down the road in how the Stats are reported at the Stat's Site's. The prevailing ideas now are for the Participants to Select the Projects they want to show & Deselect the ones they don't want to show. So there's really no need for anyone to leave BOINC as they will eventually be able to leave the BU Project out of the Stat's they show ...


Umm just so you know I built and own every piece of equipment I run and it all runs in my home so I spanked you out of my own pocket . I have no corporate monies, I am just a Tax paying Construction worker. I do not wish to run something that does just the opposite of what I am doing I try to help society and have a little fun doing it. My morals will not allow me to run something that has the potential to hurt society, so that takes me out of the completion of the overall Boinc category (I will never be #1 in Boinc, but I have already had my #1 spot in F@H). I have been running science projects for many years and also went through the GPU thing but GPU's never bothered me because they we actually doing science work. I believe the first record of me folding under the name of Grandpa was 2004 but I ran under anonymous before that Folding@Home stats

Boinc was a science based project and it no longer is, it is now a bitcoin based project with science based projects being a secondary field the credit granted to miners reinforces that point. I do not wish to run bitcoins or compete against them so I will move on to something else. My equipment will not sit idle it will continue to run, the reason I started in the first place was to help find a cure to cancer after my mother passed from the disease and my wife (Grandma) is a Lung Cancer survivor. BU and it's absurd credit has taken me out of the Boinc game and that is just the way it is.

I very seriously doubt that those running it care about what the consequences may or may not be to Boinc projects, why would any completive person run anything but mining equipment in the Boinc projects at this point in time the credit granted to BitcoinUtopia far exceeds anything else you can pass anybody running science work in a month with just 1 ASIC miner. I do not wish to compete against that

What people remember me as is irreverent to me, I know that I have tried to help society thorough my DC projects history, I also know I am one of the largest private donors in the world and I feel good about that as does the people who count to me. I also know that I have tried to preserve the DC science projects, I have not tried to destroy it by running and supporting something that does just the opposite. I feel good about what I have done and will continue to do.

Now can you or anyone running BU say that.

STE\/E
Tester
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2014-09-21 21:34:06
last modified: 2014-09-21 21:35:04

Grandpa_01 wrote:
I feel good about that as does the people who count to me. I also know that I have tried to preserve the DC science projects, I have not tried to destroy it by running and supporting something that does just the opposite. I feel good about what I have done and will continue to do.

Now can you or anyone running BU say that


Yes I can, since I have over 11 Billion Credits at Projects other than the BU Project so I feel just fine running it & what I have done at the other Projects. I look at it as just a Freebie or Throw Away Project, I continue to run WCG as I alway have & various other Projects. If I didn't run BU I wouldn't worry about it as I would just run what Projects I wanted to ...
shauge
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2014-10-04 13:59:39

+1 in favour of the context of the subject from me too.
bones cruncher
 
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2014-10-05 01:55:32

shauge wrote:

+1 in favour of the context of the subject from me too.

LOL. I don't think this is going to happen...
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