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PatHawks
 
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2009-01-20 15:49:49

I'm new to BOINC (have been crunching for three weeks now)

Why is there such a difference in how much credits are worth on different projects? For example, I can an equivilant number of credits 6x faster on MilkyWay@Home than on WCG.

Why is this?
Or is it all just my imagination?
Saenger
 
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2009-01-20 15:59:23

I'm new to BOINC (have been crunching for three weeks now)

Why is there such a difference in how much credits are worth on different projects? For example, I can an equivilant number of credits 6x faster on MilkyWay@Home than on WCG.

Why is this?
Or is it all just my imagination?

Milkyway is an extreme, they don't give a fuck about credit fairness, they seem to want as much crunching power as possible, regardless how to get it and how much collateral damage is done. They are of course applauded by a bunch of credit jerks who want to climb the stats with no real crunching, the cheaters.
IMHO MilkyWay should be excluded from the stats sites, as the credits are by no means comparable to other BOINC projects.
Grüße vom Sänger
Guest

2009-01-20 16:00:45

I'm new to BOINC (have been crunching for three weeks now)
Why is there such a difference in how much credits are worth on different projects? faster on


it's because some projects are optimizing their apps - so more work is done in a shorter time and since credits are related to the work you do get more credits. those who don't improve, are falling back.

and yes, some guys will tell you, that this is unfair. they are the preachers of stagnancy.


PatHawks
 
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2009-01-20 16:25:15

Milkyway is an extreme, they don't give a fuck about credit fairness, they seem to want as much crunching power as possible, regardless how to get it and how much collateral damage is done.

While I agree that it's hardly fair, it seems to work. That's the reason they got my attention, after all.
it's because some projects are optimizing their apps

So why doesn't everybody optimize their apps? Getting more done faster seems like it would only be a good thing. Isn't that the whole idea behind distributed computing? Or am I missing something?
Guest

2009-01-20 16:38:07

So why doesn't everybody optimize their apps? Getting more done faster seems like it would only be a good thing. Isn't that the whole idea behind distributed computing?


THAT'S a question you need to ask those guys who are sitting on their hands complaining about "inflated credits" on other projects. they rather like to spend their time insulting other people. get used to terms like "cheaters" "credit jerks" etc. if you see those, you know the guys coming out of that bog hole of lousyness.






Sid2
 
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2009-01-20 21:20:56


A Cobblestone of computation is supposedly 0.86 trillion floating-point operations, but any mention of cross-project parity quickly becomes just another flame war.

Maybe a correction factor should be applied to individual projects before being entered into stats sites.

. . . as it stands, cross project parity is the elephant in the living room.



PatHawks
 
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2009-01-20 21:57:39

Maybe a correction factor should be applied to individual projects before being entered into stats sites.

. . . as it stands, cross project parity is the elephant in the living room.

Seems like one of those ideas that works well on paper, but wouldn't ever fly in the real world.

Unfortunately, the projects that look like they're really worth while generate minimal credits.
So I feel like I have to choose between either bettering humanity or playing the credit race.

(Not naming any projects. Not trying to start a flame war.)
stwainer
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2009-01-20 23:39:50

Just crunch what you want to crunch. It would be nice if all the projects played 'fair', but defining what is fair and enforcing what is fair are two things that seem to be difficult to do.

I happen to like the Milkyway project, but only crunch at a 10% resource level due to my feelings about the credit issue and the relative benefit of Milkyway vs. other projects. This is, however, only my opinion based on my perceptions.

Do what you think is right.
PatHawks
 
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2009-01-21 01:21:33

Do what you think is right.

You're right, and I will.

It's just too bad that doing so makes rank and the competitive aspect of BOINC totally useless...
Saenger
 
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2009-01-21 09:30:38

Do what you think is right.

You're right, and I will.

It's just too bad that doing so makes rank and the competitive aspect of BOINC totally useless...

You're right, and that's why a lot of people always try to get the projects "on the right path" in regard of fairness, but you have to live with being shouted at and called names by those who don't care about fairness. They are quite an aggressive bunch.
Grüße vom Sänger
stwainer
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2009-01-21 16:42:41

Do what you think is right.

You're right, and I will.

It's just too bad that doing so makes rank and the competitive aspect of BOINC totally useless...


The rank and competitive aspect of BOINC *are* totally useless - but still fun.

I liken the competition more like a race where you're trying to beat your own best time, not racing against the others so much. It's great when you do hop over a lot of people in the standings, but after you've been crunching for awhile this happens less and less.

I just hit the 5,000,000 credit mark and the first thing I did was to try and figure out how long it would be until 6,000,000 (some time in June) I really didn't look at the standings to see if I had eclipsed someone else.
PatHawks
 
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2009-01-21 21:08:34

The rank and competitive aspect of BOINC *are* totally useless - but still fun.

Ok, I think I'm starting to understand.
I just hit the 5,000,000 credit mark and the first thing I did was to try and figure out how long it would be until 6,000,000

When a noob like me reads that, my jaw hits the floor. I may be able to join the Million Credit Club by the end of the year.
But I've got a couple old Xenon servers coming soon from ebay. That should help a bit.
Rakarin
 
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2009-01-27 02:03:38

it's because some projects are optimizing their apps
So why doesn't everybody optimize their apps? Getting more done faster seems like it would only be a good thing. Isn't that the whole idea behind distributed computing? Or am I missing something?


There have been a couple threads about this. I actually started one.

First, it's difficult to write an app that works well that says "if you have SSE3, use it". One thing that I did not know is that most optimized functions in the processor use log functions, and may not have the same rounding rules. So, you may get different results if you use SSE, SEE2, SSE3, MMX, 3DNow, etc. Actually, some projects have even had to compensate for Intel, AMD, and PPC chips having different answered when you go out many decimal places. (Some of my early SZTAKI units were invalidated because I have an AMD processor, and all testing was on Intel. Same thing happened with my G5 Mac.) You have to remember, optimized processor functions are designed to do specific functions more quickly than the standard x86 instruction set. The thing is, you're not running at a faster clock speed, so just how do you do the same math faster on the same chip?

Even with that aside, if you get something that produces good results with, say, SSE 3 (which allows floating-point SSE), is it worth loosing the volunteers who have older processors? Is it worth supporting two apps?

Further, as I understand it, BOINC itself does not yet have a reliable way to say "this processor can use SSE3, send that work unit". BOINC does list processor libraries when it starts (part of the "alphabet soup&quot, but it can't yet pick a crunching engine based on what the processor has.
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